Maker Pro
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regenerative braking

A

Androcles

Jan 1, 1970
0
| Evgenij Barsukov wrote:
|
| > Steve wrote:
| >
| >> John Bailey wrote:
| >>
| >>> Is that a fact and reason based answer or just a guess? A battery is
| >>> not as efficient as a capacitor and there is a theorem from sophomore
| >>> EE that "proves" no more than 1/2 the energy stored in a capacitor can
| >>> be recovered.
| >>
| >>
| >> Maybe at some EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, but not
| >> anywhere creditable. Most capacitors are nearly 100% efficient at low
| >> frequency and moderate charge/discharge rates, I have no idea where
| >> you came up with some "proof" that no more than half can be recovered.
| >
| >
| > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is true, easily
| > provable based on the differential equation describing capacitor
| > discharge and known to every electric engineer:
| > http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm
|
| But we're not talking about the first-year method of charging a
| capacitor from an ideal voltage source through a resistor are we? Nor
| are we talking about discharging through a resistor to a purely
| resistive load, are we?
|
| >
| > As other people have stated earlier, this applies only for straight
| > linear capacitor / resistor systems without inductance.
| >
| > Switching systems with inductance is a different story and they can
| > be 90-95% efficient.
|
| EXACTLY my point when I made the first rebuttal!! There is no "theorem"
| that states with any sort of generality that "no more than 1/2 the
| energy stored in a capacitor can be recovered." In fact you can get
| nearly 100% out as heat, should that be your goal (as it often is in
| pulsed welding systems, for example). Period. End of story.

At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
a tank of water you can only put half the water back, easily
provable based on the differential equation describing alcohol
ingestion and known to every hydraulic engineer that is currently
unemployed and wondering why he can't get a job even as a
plumber's mate in inner Elbonia, let alone as a car mechanic's
tea boy and general gofer in London.

Might I suggest that Evgenij Barsukov is ineducable and suitable
plonk material?
 
E

Evgenij Barsukov

Jan 1, 1970
0
Androcles said:
| Evgenij Barsukov wrote:
|
| > Steve wrote:
| >
| >> John Bailey wrote:
| >>
| >>> Is that a fact and reason based answer or just a guess? A battery is
| >>> not as efficient as a capacitor and there is a theorem from sophomore
| >>> EE that "proves" no more than 1/2 the energy stored in a capacitor can
| >>> be recovered.
| >>
| >>
| >> Maybe at some EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, but not
| >> anywhere creditable. Most capacitors are nearly 100% efficient at low
| >> frequency and moderate charge/discharge rates, I have no idea where
| >> you came up with some "proof" that no more than half can be recovered.
| >
| >
| > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is true, easily
| > provable based on the differential equation describing capacitor
| > discharge and known to every electric engineer:
| > http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm
|
| But we're not talking about the first-year method of charging a
| capacitor from an ideal voltage source through a resistor are we? Nor
| are we talking about discharging through a resistor to a purely
| resistive load, are we?
|
| >
| > As other people have stated earlier, this applies only for straight
| > linear capacitor / resistor systems without inductance.
| >
| > Switching systems with inductance is a different story and they can
| > be 90-95% efficient.
|
| EXACTLY my point when I made the first rebuttal!! There is no "theorem"
| that states with any sort of generality that "no more than 1/2 the
| energy stored in a capacitor can be recovered." In fact you can get
| nearly 100% out as heat, should that be your goal (as it often is in
| pulsed welding systems, for example). Period. End of story.

At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
a tank of water you can only put half the water back, easily
provable based on the differential equation describing alcohol
ingestion and known to every hydraulic engineer that is currently
unemployed and wondering why he can't get a job even as a
plumber's mate in inner Elbonia, let alone as a car mechanic's
tea boy and general gofer in London.

Might I suggest that Evgenij Barsukov is ineducable and suitable
plonk material?

You want to measure credentials or salary?
 
N

Nate Nagel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Benj said:
Great 'theorem"! Tell you what. I've got a real nice large HV
capacitor. To prove your "theorem" I'll charge it up to a nice voltage
and then use a resistor to remove half the energy stored in it. At
that point we'll apply the terminals to your ass.

Moron.

And Guys! Please leave your liberal educations behind. In Science and
Engineering Quantity Matters! No, Virginia, the world CANNOT be saved
by windmills!

One key parameter in regenerative braking is the rate at which energy
produced and returned to the storage system. If you are going 60 and
just slow down, you can put large percentage of the energy back into
the system (except for the friction and other losses you are
overcoming, natch) but if you come up to a read light and lock the
wheels, you get next to nothing back. Even with rapid stops there is
the question how rapidly and efficiently batteries can be charged at
high currents even assuming the regenerate system is capable of those
currents. Physicists trying to do engineering! This is a hoot!

Let's return to body-on-frame construction, with a ladder type frame.
All frame connections will be bolted and electrically isolated. The
driver's side frame rail will be the positive bus bar and the passenger
side will be the negative bus bar. The capacitors will bolt directly to
the frame rails, as will the motor/generators at each end of the car.
Problem solved! In fact, the capacitors can act as the crossmembers, so
no actual crossmembers will be required.

Make sure to throw the main disconnect before placing your jack stands.

nate

(guess I better get started on this patent application doomaflatchey...)
 
J

jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Androcles said:
At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
a tank of water you can only put half the water back,

Well actually in outer Elbonia you only have a hole in the ground to store
the water when it's out of the tank so you usually can't even get half
back in.

-jim
 
A

Androcles

Jan 1, 1970
0
| Androcles wrote:
| > | > | Evgenij Barsukov wrote:
| > |
| > | > Steve wrote:
| > | >
| > | >> John Bailey wrote:
| > | >>
| > | >>> Is that a fact and reason based answer or just a guess? A battery
is
| > | >>> not as efficient as a capacitor and there is a theorem from
sophomore
| > | >>> EE that "proves" no more than 1/2 the energy stored in a capacitor
can
| > | >>> be recovered.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> Maybe at some EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, but not
| > | >> anywhere creditable. Most capacitors are nearly 100% efficient at
low
| > | >> frequency and moderate charge/discharge rates, I have no idea where
| > | >> you came up with some "proof" that no more than half can be
recovered.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is true, easily
| > | > provable based on the differential equation describing capacitor
| > | > discharge and known to every electric engineer:
| > | > http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm
| > |
| > | But we're not talking about the first-year method of charging a
| > | capacitor from an ideal voltage source through a resistor are we? Nor
| > | are we talking about discharging through a resistor to a purely
| > | resistive load, are we?
| > |
| > | >
| > | > As other people have stated earlier, this applies only for straight
| > | > linear capacitor / resistor systems without inductance.
| > | >
| > | > Switching systems with inductance is a different story and they can
| > | > be 90-95% efficient.
| > |
| > | EXACTLY my point when I made the first rebuttal!! There is no
"theorem"
| > | that states with any sort of generality that "no more than 1/2 the
| > | energy stored in a capacitor can be recovered." In fact you can get
| > | nearly 100% out as heat, should that be your goal (as it often is in
| > | pulsed welding systems, for example). Period. End of story.
| >
| > At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
| > a tank of water you can only put half the water back, easily
| > provable based on the differential equation describing alcohol
| > ingestion and known to every hydraulic engineer that is currently
| > unemployed and wondering why he can't get a job even as a
| > plumber's mate in inner Elbonia, let alone as a car mechanic's
| > tea boy and general gofer in London.
| >
| > Might I suggest that Evgenij Barsukov is ineducable and suitable
| > plonk material?
|
| You want to measure credentials or salary?


Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is false, easily
provable based on conservation of energy as known to every
mechanical engineer.
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/SHO/damp.html
 
E

Evgenij Barsukov

Jan 1, 1970
0
Androcles said:
| Androcles wrote:
| > | > | Evgenij Barsukov wrote:
| > |
| > | > Steve wrote:
| > | >
| > | >> John Bailey wrote:
| > | >>
| > | >>> Is that a fact and reason based answer or just a guess? A battery
is
| > | >>> not as efficient as a capacitor and there is a theorem from
sophomore
| > | >>> EE that "proves" no more than 1/2 the energy stored in a capacitor
can
| > | >>> be recovered.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> Maybe at some EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, but not
| > | >> anywhere creditable. Most capacitors are nearly 100% efficient at
low
| > | >> frequency and moderate charge/discharge rates, I have no idea where
| > | >> you came up with some "proof" that no more than half can be
recovered.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is true, easily
| > | > provable based on the differential equation describing capacitor
| > | > discharge and known to every electric engineer:
| > | > http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm
| > |
| > | But we're not talking about the first-year method of charging a
| > | capacitor from an ideal voltage source through a resistor are we? Nor
| > | are we talking about discharging through a resistor to a purely
| > | resistive load, are we?
| > |
| > | >
| > | > As other people have stated earlier, this applies only for straight
| > | > linear capacitor / resistor systems without inductance.
| > | >
| > | > Switching systems with inductance is a different story and they can
| > | > be 90-95% efficient.
| > |
| > | EXACTLY my point when I made the first rebuttal!! There is no
"theorem"
| > | that states with any sort of generality that "no more than 1/2 the
| > | energy stored in a capacitor can be recovered." In fact you can get
| > | nearly 100% out as heat, should that be your goal (as it often is in
| > | pulsed welding systems, for example). Period. End of story.
| >
| > At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
| > a tank of water you can only put half the water back, easily
| > provable based on the differential equation describing alcohol
| > ingestion and known to every hydraulic engineer that is currently
| > unemployed and wondering why he can't get a job even as a
| > plumber's mate in inner Elbonia, let alone as a car mechanic's
| > tea boy and general gofer in London.
| >
| > Might I suggest that Evgenij Barsukov is ineducable and suitable
| > plonk material?
|
| You want to measure credentials or salary?


Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is false, easily
provable based on conservation of energy as known to every
mechanical engineer.
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/SHO/damp.html
I knew you will not accept the challenge. You remind me of that blue
cube/spring oscillator in your link - pops up without any obvious
reason, scrabbles a few meaningless one-liners and than disappears again.
Why don't you come to the table and play, instead of just bringing
the ping-pongs to the real players?

Regards,
Evgenij
 
A

Androcles

Jan 1, 1970
0
| Androcles wrote:
| > | > | Androcles wrote:
| > | > | > | > | Evgenij Barsukov wrote:
| > | > |
| > | > | > Steve wrote:
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> John Bailey wrote:
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >>> Is that a fact and reason based answer or just a guess? A
battery
| > is
| > | > | >>> not as efficient as a capacitor and there is a theorem from
| > sophomore
| > | > | >>> EE that "proves" no more than 1/2 the energy stored in a
capacitor
| > can
| > | > | >>> be recovered.
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> Maybe at some EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, but
not
| > | > | >> anywhere creditable. Most capacitors are nearly 100% efficient
at
| > low
| > | > | >> frequency and moderate charge/discharge rates, I have no idea
where
| > | > | >> you came up with some "proof" that no more than half can be
| > recovered.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is true,
easily
| > | > | > provable based on the differential equation describing capacitor
| > | > | > discharge and known to every electric engineer:
| > | > | > http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm
| > | > |
| > | > | But we're not talking about the first-year method of charging a
| > | > | capacitor from an ideal voltage source through a resistor are we?
Nor
| > | > | are we talking about discharging through a resistor to a purely
| > | > | resistive load, are we?
| > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | > As other people have stated earlier, this applies only for
straight
| > | > | > linear capacitor / resistor systems without inductance.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Switching systems with inductance is a different story and they
can
| > | > | > be 90-95% efficient.
| > | > |
| > | > | EXACTLY my point when I made the first rebuttal!! There is no
| > "theorem"
| > | > | that states with any sort of generality that "no more than 1/2 the
| > | > | energy stored in a capacitor can be recovered." In fact you can
get
| > | > | nearly 100% out as heat, should that be your goal (as it often is
in
| > | > | pulsed welding systems, for example). Period. End of story.
| > | >
| > | > At the EE correspondence school in outer Elbonia, if you drain
| > | > a tank of water you can only put half the water back, easily
| > | > provable based on the differential equation describing alcohol
| > | > ingestion and known to every hydraulic engineer that is currently
| > | > unemployed and wondering why he can't get a job even as a
| > | > plumber's mate in inner Elbonia, let alone as a car mechanic's
| > | > tea boy and general gofer in London.
| > | >
| > | > Might I suggest that Evgenij Barsukov is ineducable and suitable
| > | > plonk material?
| > |
| > | You want to measure credentials or salary?
| >
| >
| > Sorry man, it might not be obvious, but this effect is false, easily
| > provable based on conservation of energy as known to every
| > mechanical engineer.
| > http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/SHO/damp.html
| >
| I knew you will not accept the challenge. You remind me of that blue
| cube/spring oscillator in your link - pops up without any obvious
| reason, scrabbles a few meaningless one-liners and than disappears again.
| Why don't you come to the table and play, instead of just bringing
| the ping-pongs to the real players?
|
You remind me of those cretins that change names constantly -
pops up without any obvious reason, scrabbles a few meaningless
one-liners such as "easily provable based on the differential equation
describing capacitor discharge" and thEn disappears again.
Let's see your proof that half the charge on a capacitor will be lost in
an inductive load such as the motor on a Prism.
There's the challenge; salary is irrelevant, you haven't got the job yet.
 
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