Recommendations on pcb schematic/layout package

[BobW]

I'm doing a home project and don't want to buy a big package (like PADS).

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed (you
get what you pay for) because their component shape libraries were buggy and
unsupported. The resulting pcbs were fine, but it was a struggle getting
there.

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Tim Wescott]

I'm doing a home project and don't want to buy a big package (like PADS).

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed (you
get what you pay for) because their component shape libraries were buggy and
unsupported. The resulting pcbs were fine, but it was a struggle getting
there.

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

I have used several PCB layout systems, and I have yet to use one whose
libraries are not effectively buggy and unsupported. If you are serious
about your boards, plan on making your own libraries. (Life is best if
you work for a company that has a dedicated component librarian -- you
send a data sheet, the component appears in the library, you say "gee, I
think that op-amp needs a smiley face" and the library is updated...).

Eagle (search for it) is pretty good and has a staged pricing/capability
structure that starts at $0 for a version that'll do a small two-layer
board. Most of the components in the libraries are usable as-is,
although if you use more than one library things can get klunky (the
reference designators are a bit odd, and there are stylistic differences
between libraries that can get confusing).

I have found that if I suppress my gag reflex for most things and am
ready to build parts for the rest I can get prototype quality boards
built with a minimum of work. Were I going to do a 'professional'
quality board instead of the usual 'proof of concept' boards that I do
I'd have to do a bunch of work on the libraries, or have it done, but
that's par for the course.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[JeffM]

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed
(you get what you pay for)

Well, here's a topic that hasn't been beaten to death.</sarcasm>
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?&q=KiCAD+ingroup:sci.electronics&scoring=d

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:imdb.com+The.Graduate+one-word-*-you+PLASTICS
"Open source".

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

There are a few places that still have Circuitmaker 2000 and the companion
Traxmaker for download. I've got both of these owner's manuals in pdf I'd
be willing to share if you can come up with the software. Don't bother
trying to get the old CIrcuitmaker 6 and Traxmaker 3 working; they were
fairly buggy.

For my money, this was the sweet spot between low end junk and high end
professional before Protel bought them out and then dumped them.

Jim

 

[[email protected]]

I'm doing a home project and don't want to buy a big package (like PADS).

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed (you
get what you pay for) because their component shape libraries were buggy and
unsupported. The resulting pcbs were fine, but it was a struggle getting
there.

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

If you can live with Linux, check out the gEDA package, which includes
PCB

http://www.geda.seul.org/tools/pcb/index.html

 

[mpm]

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

I've used ExpressPCB many times.
No "bug" problems, but it's basically a fully-manual system.

With patience and forethought, you can lay out some very complex
boards.

One nice thing is that once you have a design and you're satisfied
it's "perfect", for an extra $60 US, or so, they'll send you the
Gerbers.

I suspect some of the other proto houses will send Gerbers too, but
best to check first.
Sounds like your project is small, so Gerber availability probably
isn't an issue?

Never used PADS. Used to use EEDesigner Pro back in the stone ages.

-mpm

 

[BobW]

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

I've used ExpressPCB many times.
No "bug" problems, but it's basically a fully-manual system.

With patience and forethought, you can lay out some very complex
boards.

One nice thing is that once you have a design and you're satisfied
it's "perfect", for an extra $60 US, or so, they'll send you the
Gerbers.

I suspect some of the other proto houses will send Gerbers too, but
best to check first.
Sounds like your project is small, so Gerber availability probably
isn't an issue?

Never used PADS. Used to use EEDesigner Pro back in the stone ages.

-mpm

The design is pretty simple. Just a 100-pin TQFP and miscellaneous other
stuff. Two signal layers and one power/ground pair should do the trick.

I guess the key is to check and double check the libraries and final output.

I think I'll give them a try.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[Lavelock]

I'm doing a home project and don't want to buy a big package (like PADS).

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed (you
get what you pay for) because their component shape libraries were buggy and
unsupported. The resulting pcbs were fine, but it was a struggle getting
there.

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

Thanks,
Bob

You are not smart enough to use PCB123 that's why BobWide. You like someone to feed you foods in your mouth, that won't happen.

 

[Lavelock]

I've used ExpressPCB many times.
No "bug" problems, but it's basically a fully-manual system.

Damned bad advice. I've done manually layout before, it took me 2 weeks to do 1/2 day job. You guys should revisit pcb123. Be versatile on computer, learn to recognize the behavior of the program a little bit and you will be very successful.

 

[Lavelock]

I have used several PCB layout systems, and I have yet to use one whose
libraries are not effectively buggy and unsupported. If you are serious
about your boards, plan on making your own libraries. (Life is best if

Now this is a good recommendation, I give 100 points.

 

[mpm]

Damned bad advice. �I've done manually layout before, it took me 2weeks to do 1/2 day job. �You guys should revisit pcb123. �Be versatile on computer, learn to recognize the behavior of the program a little bit and you will be very successful.

I tend not to "blame" my tools, unless they are truly unfit for their
intended purpose.
For a FREE multilayer manual PCB layout software application that
functions exactly as the manual says it should..... it's hard to find
fault with that.

We didn't write these applications, and for any number of reasons
beyond the OP's control, maybe that app just doesn't work for him, or
his machine. That is the basis for the reply. The total assertion
that I am not successful because I have somehow failed to recognize
the behavior of your preferred program borders on the retarded. Grow
up.

I am not arguing that a motorized chainsaw beats a hand axe when
you're cutting down trees, only that either will get the job
done. ...and on occasion (such as a no fuel condition), the hand axe
is actually preferred.

-mpm

 

[JosephKK]

I have used several PCB layout systems, and I have yet to use one whose
libraries are not effectively buggy and unsupported. If you are serious
about your boards, plan on making your own libraries. (Life is best if
you work for a company that has a dedicated component librarian -- you
send a data sheet, the component appears in the library, you say "gee, I
think that op-amp needs a smiley face" and the library is updated...).

Eagle (search for it) is pretty good and has a staged pricing/capability
structure that starts at $0 for a version that'll do a small two-layer
board. Most of the components in the libraries are usable as-is,
although if you use more than one library things can get klunky (the
reference designators are a bit odd, and there are stylistic differences
between libraries that can get confusing).

I have found that if I suppress my gag reflex for most things and am
ready to build parts for the rest I can get prototype quality boards
built with a minimum of work. Were I going to do a 'professional'
quality board instead of the usual 'proof of concept' boards that I do
I'd have to do a bunch of work on the libraries, or have it done, but
that's par for the course.

Once upon a time i bought a schematic capture / PCB tool from these
folks: http://www.holophase.com/. I liked it pretty well. It seems
that they have a free version for windows. It does not work in wine due
to directx issues. I am intrigued, they had a this product 20+ years
ago that was usable tools that ran on a 286 and just smoked the
competition. Not high enough profile to get bought but still in
business. interesting?

 

[David L. Jones]

Once upon a time i bought a schematic capture / PCB tool from these
folks: http://www.holophase.com/. I liked it pretty well. It seems
that they have a free version for windows. It does not work in wine due
to directx issues. I am intrigued, they had a this product 20+ years
ago that was usable tools that ran on a 286 and just smoked the
competition. Not high enough profile to get bought but still in
business. interesting?

I guess these days, who's going to buy a company who's only product is
written mostly in assembly language? Not really a company to get
bought out for its technology I guess.
And as you say, not high enough in profile (or competing sales) to get
bought out either.

Dave.

 

[Eeyore]

I've used ExpressPCB many times.
No "bug" problems, but it's basically a fully-manual system.

With patience and forethought, you can lay out some very complex
boards.

One nice thing is that once you have a design and you're satisfied
it's "perfect", for an extra $60 US, or so, they'll send you the
Gerbers.

I didn't know that. Could be handy.

Graham

 

[Tam]

I'm doing a home project and don't want to buy a big package (like PADS).

I've used the free PCB123 schematic/layout stuff and I was dissapointed
(you get what you pay for) because their component shape libraries were
buggy and unsupported. The resulting pcbs were fine, but it was a struggle
getting there.

Any other places (like ExpressPCB) that you've had good luck with?

Thanks,
Bob

Check out DipTrace. There is an online manual, and a usable free version.

Tam

 

[JeffM]

Check out DipTrace. There is an online manual, and a usable free version.

Before proceeding with this suggestion, read this:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....g-else-to-stand-on+ww-ww+qq+not-a-nice-choice