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receiving a carrier

J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks

If you do not want to mix down, then you will have to build a selective
amplifier for the frequency you use.
What frequency is that? Are you allowed to use it?
Normally one would use LC tuned circuits, or perhaps xtals at the frequency
you want, the issue is stability, if the input picks up any of the signal
from the next stages, then you have a problem.
 
J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
thanks Jan
do you have any simple circuit that can perform that.
can I add selective amplifier for a definite frquency to any superhet.
receiver (may be commercial radio), to isolate the desired high
frequency carrier without mixing?!
thanks
 
R

Roger Hamlett

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
thanks Jan
do you have any simple circuit that can perform that.
can I add selective amplifier for a definite frquency to any superhet.
receiver (may be commercial radio), to isolate the desired high
frequency carrier without mixing?!
thanks
You need to undertsand what is going on a bit. On a normal radio, you are
not interested at all in the 'carrier', except as a 'carrier', of the
modulated data (hence the name). It is harder to amplify high frequency
signals, than those at lower frequencies (limitations of the amplifiers
themselves), and to really accurately tune them, so what was done, was to
start by amplifying the signal a little, then immediately mix to produce a
lower working frequency (the I.F. - intermediate frequency), and
amplify/tune this. This is the 'superhet'. This also has the big advantage
that for a 'tuneable' radio (that can be used to receive different
adjacent bands), the RF tuning can be quite wide band, and by changing the
mixing frequency, the _same_ IF can be produced for different incoming
frequencies. The IF tuning can be accurately set, and quite narrow band.
to give good selectivity.
Now, if you want to look at the incoming carrier itself, there is
absolutely no point at all, in getting involved in a superhet. After the
first stage, the signal will already be at a lower frequency, and will not
give you access to the 'carrier'. Instead do a search for 'T.R.F.' (tuned
radio frequency). This is a much simpler radio design, which relies on
just a tuned RF stage, and amplification at the RF frequency. Normally, a
envelope detector is then used to get the amplitude modulation on the
carrier, but without this, such a radio, will give direct access to the
incoming 'carrier'. Historically, getting good gain/selectivity with such
designs, was quite hard, but a number of basic IC's exist to do this. The
ZN414, and it's latter descendants, was probably the most famous, and
though this is no longer available, the MK484 is an almost direct
replacement.

Best Wishes
 
A

Ancient_Hacker

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks

A few important questions:

What's the frequency?

How far does it have to go?

How clean does the received signal have to be?

How much power is available at the transmitter and receiver?

What country's radio laws apply?
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
thanks Jan
do you have any simple circuit that can perform that.

No way can I answer that as yo udo not give:
1) frequency.
2) required bandwidth.
3) signal strength expected.
can I add selective amplifier for a definite frquency to any superhet.
receiver (may be commercial radio), to isolate the desired high
frequency carrier without mixing?!
thanks

It would perhaps be simpler to build a separate receiver.
Please answer 1,2,3 questions above.
 
M

maxfoo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks

Forget designing your own rvcr/xmt unit. The way to go these days is to just add
a module to your pcb. I like RF monolithics transceivers, they comes in
different frequency flavors.

http://www.rfm.com/products/shortrangeradios.htm
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
** Desperate Groper Alert .


I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.


** Here's how you do it:

1. Get yourself and old 27 MHz CB radio.

2. Strap the mic button down, but don't say anything into it.

3. Get a " Signal Strength Meter" - looks like a VU meter with an short
antenna on top.

4. The needle on the meter will show you if the carrier exists and indicate
its relative strength at a distance.


10- 4 li'll buddy..........




......... Phil
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.

I wonder what for.
You won't have anything to listen to at the receiver if you execute the
scheme you describe.
I'm no expert, but I think you may get a whistling sound during tuning
or when the frequency drifts. Isn't that what happens when you're
tuning around on sideband and you come across an AM carrier?
Why don't you just get a shorwave receiver, build some kind of a simple
tank circuit for your transmitter, and play around with them. You
might learn something. From the vagueness of your first post nobody
can really advise you anyway.
 
F

Frank Raffaeli

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks

Google "superregen" or "super regenerative receiver" and other
variants.Super-regenerative receivers are popular in applications such
as garage door remote, car alarm systems and wireless door chimes. They
are ideal where information rate and cost are low.

If you want to design your own, let me know; however, it may be
challenging for a beginner. There are some examples on the web, as well
as some commercially available units.

Super-regenerative receivers are used often at 210, 280, 312, 315, 390,
418, 434 MHz. I have also seen applications at 2441 and higher.

This type of receiver works like this: An RF amplifier with positive
feedback (at inteded receive frequency) is allowed to go in and out of
oscillation at a rate called the quench frequency. Sometimes the quench
is forced externally, and sometimes a single transistor is biased and
configured such that the RF transistor serves also as the quench
oscillator (self quenching).

If you do it right, you can build a single-transistor receiver for a
few pennies. Sensitivity is about 10uV with 75 ohm input. YMMV. In
commercial applications, the challenging part of the design is meeting
regulatory agency approvals, especially passing the "unintentional
radiator" criteria.

Frank Raffaeli
http://www.aomwireless.com/
 
G

Greg Neill

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks

Maybe this will give you some ideas:

http://www2.arrl.org/qst/2006/02/Bau.pdf
 
J

Jon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this...
Any commercial receiver can do this. In the early days of Ham radio
where Morse code was used, this is exactly what was done. The
transmitter sent an "unmodulated" carrier that was interrupted to
generate the code. At the receiver end, the carrier was mixed with the
output of a local oscillator that was tuned slightly "off" from the
received carrier frequency. The result was an audio signal equal in
frequency to the difference between the carrier frequency and the local
oscillator frequency. This gave an audible indication of the presence
or absence of the carrier.
Regards,
Jon
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
Hello All.
I am a beginner, all I need is to build a transmitter that only
transmits a carrier without any modulation and be able to receive this
carrier at the second location.
unfortunaitly, most receiver circuits that are available over the
internet use a different techniques such as superhet, which is not
suitable for my application, I need to receive the carrier only with
the same frquency as I sent it.
please try to help me.
thanks
And the problem with a phase lock loop is?


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Ancient hacker
the frequency may be any thing, this is not my question, ok say it is
100 M, for 0.5 Km distance.
My question is what is the way to receive a non modulated carrier, if I
have an oscillator and antena, I can transmite high frequency carrier
without any modulation, now I want to receive that carrier ( and when
examine it, it must be the same frequency and shape of the same
transmitted carrier), how I can perform that?
 
J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
hello Jan
I am asking about the concept, but let us say 1) 100 M
2)to be transmitted 0.5 km
 
J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Kell
yes I don't want to listen to any thing, but I have another
application I want to do
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
My question is what is the way to receive a non modulated carrier, if I
have an oscillator and antena, I can transmite high frequency carrier
without any modulation, now I want to receive that carrier ( and when
examine it, it must be the same frequency and shape of the same
transmitted carrier), how I can perform that?

Umm... if you hook up an antenna that's resonant at more or less 100MHz, the
signal out of the antenna will be the carrier you transmitted -- with lots of
attenuation, of course.

As a first order approximation, there's no difference between a tuned
transmitting/receiving antenna system and a big attenuator. In other words,
you can simulate your wireless system by just connecting up your transmitter &
receiver with a cable and, say, a 60dB pad inbetween. (Throw in an extra
arbitrary phase shift if you'd like -- use a random length of coax cable.)

It sounds like you don't have much experience here... could you tell us what
you're trying to accomplish? Why a superheterodyne architecture won't work?
When you say "it must be the same frequency" does that include accounting for
things like doppler shifts? What does "the same shape" mean if you aren't
modulating the carrier?


---Joel
 
J

jhon1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks Joel
I am working on a project to transmite a clock signal (just binary
sequence or square wave), and one of the solutions is to send a sine
wave ( high frequency carrier) and squarising it at the other side, so
how I can achieve like this task?
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
jhon1 said:
Hello Kell
yes I don't want to listen to any thing, but I have another
application I want to do


Have fun then. There are many, very valid reasons that you don't see
receivers that are not superhetrodyne.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
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