Reasonable price for signal generator?

[engineer]

Gents and Ladies,

I'm an engineer interested in marketing a portable (battery
powered) square wave generator.

I'd like to ask you what you think you would comfortably pay for
the device I have in mind, as follows;

Pros;
50 ohm output impedance nominal (lower at DC, higher at 1 MHz)
Output adjustable from 0 to 5 volts dc p-p.
Square wave (50% +/- 0.5% duty) from 1 Hz to 500 kHz, triangle
500 kHz to 1 MHz\
Output to 250 mA nominal current, 450 mA peak (dc A, not rms)
Nominal Battery life 58 hours.
Power LED.
BNC output
Screw terminal-option Banana (2) output too.
6 ranges, 1.8 decades each (overlapping), <1 Hz to >1MHz
'Heavy Duty' ABS plastic enclosure with battery compartment
Coarse frequency control pot 1.8 decades range
Fine frequency control pot +/- 3% range
Can drive a speaker directly in the audio range
Can drive a light bulb
Can drive any inductor since output protected by diodes.
Can drive a short circuit continuously
TTL compatible signal 1 Hz to 1 MHz.
Power on switch located in level control pot.
Overall dimensions 7" x 4" x 2"
Output buffered, internal voltage regulation.
Frequency continuously adjustable with low drift and jitter
600nS rise / fall times.
Weighs about 5 ounces and fits in any tool box.
Slightly stylish ergonomic black case, rectangular footprint.
Handmade to last a very, very, very long time.
No chinese or indonesian slaves were used in the manufacture.
Made in America, by an American (that and two dollars could get
me a coffee
Enclosure will resist cracking when dropped on hard surface.
4 Controls.

Cons;
Only a square wave output, which turns into a triangle wave at
500 kHz due to slew limit.
2mV nominal output offset (never goes to exactly zero)
DC offset not adjustable (signal goes from 0 to 5 or between as
set by level control)
No modulation input.
No DC power input option (just the 9 volt battery)
Doesn't go below 1 Hz or above 1 MHz
Nicely labelled, but not painted-on lettering.
No anti-skid feet.
0 buttons or toggle switches.

This unit is designed for portable use, by technicians in the field, or
by engineers relocating their project from the lab to living room.
It may be the only portable unit of it's capacity to have a bnc / 50
ohm output - or - thumb-screw terminals for attaching small components.


Given that it is good quality, with good, but slightly non-conventional
appearance, what would you expect to pay for one if you needed it?

They take several hours apiece to make one, but a buyer wouldn't know
that... all surface mount components, lead solder, cleaned double-sided
boards, conformal coated .. etc.

Thanks very much for considering my question regarding the asking price
for this unit.

- Geoff

 

[John Jardine.]

Gents and Ladies,

I'm an engineer interested in marketing a portable (battery
powered) square wave generator.

I'd like to ask you what you think you would comfortably pay for
the device I have in mind, as follows;

Pros;
50 ohm output impedance nominal (lower at DC, higher at 1 MHz)
Output adjustable from 0 to 5 volts dc p-p.
Square wave (50% +/- 0.5% duty) from 1 Hz to 500 kHz, triangle
500 kHz to 1 MHz\
Output to 250 mA nominal current, 450 mA peak (dc A, not rms)
Nominal Battery life 58 hours.
Power LED.
BNC output
Screw terminal-option Banana (2) output too.
6 ranges, 1.8 decades each (overlapping), <1 Hz to >1MHz
'Heavy Duty' ABS plastic enclosure with battery compartment
Coarse frequency control pot 1.8 decades range
Fine frequency control pot +/- 3% range
Can drive a speaker directly in the audio range
Can drive a light bulb
Can drive any inductor since output protected by diodes.
Can drive a short circuit continuously
TTL compatible signal 1 Hz to 1 MHz.
Power on switch located in level control pot.
Overall dimensions 7" x 4" x 2"
Output buffered, internal voltage regulation.
Frequency continuously adjustable with low drift and jitter
600nS rise / fall times.
Weighs about 5 ounces and fits in any tool box.
Slightly stylish ergonomic black case, rectangular footprint.
Handmade to last a very, very, very long time.
No chinese or indonesian slaves were used in the manufacture.
Made in America, by an American (that and two dollars could get
me a coffee
Enclosure will resist cracking when dropped on hard surface.
4 Controls.

Cons;
Only a square wave output, which turns into a triangle wave at
500 kHz due to slew limit.
2mV nominal output offset (never goes to exactly zero)
DC offset not adjustable (signal goes from 0 to 5 or between as
set by level control)
No modulation input.
No DC power input option (just the 9 volt battery)
Doesn't go below 1 Hz or above 1 MHz
Nicely labelled, but not painted-on lettering.
No anti-skid feet.
0 buttons or toggle switches.

This unit is designed for portable use, by technicians in the field, or
by engineers relocating their project from the lab to living room.
It may be the only portable unit of it's capacity to have a bnc / 50
ohm output - or - thumb-screw terminals for attaching small components.


Given that it is good quality, with good, but slightly non-conventional
appearance, what would you expect to pay for one if you needed it?

They take several hours apiece to make one, but a buyer wouldn't know
that... all surface mount components, lead solder, cleaned double-sided
boards, conformal coated .. etc.

Thanks very much for considering my question regarding the asking price
for this unit.

- Geoff

For a change it's nice to see some cons listed!.
There is very little electronics in there, so maybe 98% of the build cost
will be mechanical items, costed out in small quantity say about $11.
There *should* be an assembly time labour cost of maybe 4$, giving total
manufacture costs of $15 and a sell out price based on say a 1.5 mark up of
say $22.
But ... I wouldn't buy one at that price reason is you're going to have
to offer far far more in the way of spec' than you are here.
For example, rise and fall times could easily be 10nS 0-5Vpp 50ohms all the
way to 10MHz using just (cheap) transistors and a 74HC logic gate.
Another example, The battery life of 54Hours is unbelievable. You must
assume that at least some part of the time a bulb or speaker just might be
connected. The case volume you have does not allow for a battery offering a
realistic life greater than an hour or so.
Honestly, I'm not intentionally being negative, it's just that I've seen the
disappointment in peoples faces resulting after much effort and time has
been spent on these type of projects.
Best learning curve though is personal experience .
A valid offer price can be reached simply by pricing up your parts and own
labour cost. Add a suitable profit margin on and then offer the unit for
sale. (this is a UK perspective, details may be different in US but the
principle is similar)
john

 

[Ian Stirling]

Another example, The battery life of 54Hours is unbelievable. You must
assume that at least some part of the time a bulb or speaker just might be
connected. The case volume you have does not allow for a battery offering a
realistic life greater than an hour or so.

Err, no.
7"*4"*2"
5V, 50 ohm, say a watt.
6 NiMH AA cells - 12Wh of energy should be plenty.
Though you could easily fit 36AA cells in there - for vastly more.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks very much for considering my question regarding the asking price
for this unit.

- Geoff

FORGET all about making "standard" pieces of test gear, buy the way
nobody carries a squarewave generator in their toolkit, find yourself a
"niche" device.

 

[David L. Jones]

Gents and Ladies,

I'm an engineer interested in marketing a portable (battery
powered) square wave generator.

I'd like to ask you what you think you would comfortably pay for
the device I have in mind, as follows;

Pros;
50 ohm output impedance nominal (lower at DC, higher at 1 MHz)
Output adjustable from 0 to 5 volts dc p-p.
Square wave (50% +/- 0.5% duty) from 1 Hz to 500 kHz, triangle
500 kHz to 1 MHz\
Output to 250 mA nominal current, 450 mA peak (dc A, not rms)
Nominal Battery life 58 hours.
Power LED.
BNC output
Screw terminal-option Banana (2) output too.
6 ranges, 1.8 decades each (overlapping), <1 Hz to >1MHz
'Heavy Duty' ABS plastic enclosure with battery compartment
Coarse frequency control pot 1.8 decades range
Fine frequency control pot +/- 3% range
Can drive a speaker directly in the audio range
Can drive a light bulb
Can drive any inductor since output protected by diodes.
Can drive a short circuit continuously
TTL compatible signal 1 Hz to 1 MHz.
Power on switch located in level control pot.
Overall dimensions 7" x 4" x 2"
Output buffered, internal voltage regulation.
Frequency continuously adjustable with low drift and jitter
600nS rise / fall times.
Weighs about 5 ounces and fits in any tool box.
Slightly stylish ergonomic black case, rectangular footprint.
Handmade to last a very, very, very long time.
No chinese or indonesian slaves were used in the manufacture.
Made in America, by an American (that and two dollars could get
me a coffee
Enclosure will resist cracking when dropped on hard surface.
4 Controls.

Cons;
Only a square wave output, which turns into a triangle wave at
500 kHz due to slew limit.
2mV nominal output offset (never goes to exactly zero)
DC offset not adjustable (signal goes from 0 to 5 or between as
set by level control)
No modulation input.
No DC power input option (just the 9 volt battery)
Doesn't go below 1 Hz or above 1 MHz
Nicely labelled, but not painted-on lettering.
No anti-skid feet.
0 buttons or toggle switches.

This unit is designed for portable use, by technicians in the field, or
by engineers relocating their project from the lab to living room.
It may be the only portable unit of it's capacity to have a bnc / 50
ohm output - or - thumb-screw terminals for attaching small components.


Given that it is good quality, with good, but slightly non-conventional
appearance, what would you expect to pay for one if you needed it?

They take several hours apiece to make one, but a buyer wouldn't know
that... all surface mount components, lead solder, cleaned double-sided
boards, conformal coated .. etc.

Thanks very much for considering my question regarding the asking price
for this unit.

- Geoff

A few comments...

Price isn't the issue, it has to be useful to someone, it has to have a
target market.
Who needs a portable square wave only generator?
The "TTL probe" kind can be handy for circuit work, and there are a few
of those around already.

7" x 4" x 2" is *HUGE*. Not exactly portable. If I want something
battery powered and portable I'd want MUCH smaller than that. For that
size I would want a whole host of extra features. The features given
could be done in a truly pocket size unit, and that might be better
received.

It needs a sine wave output.

It needs a low battery LED.

The rise/fall time is poor. I assume the TTL output is much better?

Dave

 

[Chris Jones]

Gents and Ladies,

I'm an engineer interested in marketing a portable (battery
powered) square wave generator.

I'd like to ask you what you think you would comfortably pay for
the device I have in mind, as follows;

Pros;
50 ohm output impedance nominal (lower at DC, higher at 1 MHz)
Output adjustable from 0 to 5 volts dc p-p.
Square wave (50% +/- 0.5% duty) from 1 Hz to 500 kHz, triangle
500 kHz to 1 MHz\
Output to 250 mA nominal current, 450 mA peak (dc A, not rms)
Nominal Battery life 58 hours.
Power LED.
BNC output
Screw terminal-option Banana (2) output too.
6 ranges, 1.8 decades each (overlapping), <1 Hz to >1MHz
'Heavy Duty' ABS plastic enclosure with battery compartment
Coarse frequency control pot 1.8 decades range
Fine frequency control pot +/- 3% range
Can drive a speaker directly in the audio range
Can drive a light bulb
Can drive any inductor since output protected by diodes.
Can drive a short circuit continuously
TTL compatible signal 1 Hz to 1 MHz.
Power on switch located in level control pot.
Overall dimensions 7" x 4" x 2"
Output buffered, internal voltage regulation.
Frequency continuously adjustable with low drift and jitter
600nS rise / fall times.
Weighs about 5 ounces and fits in any tool box.
Slightly stylish ergonomic black case, rectangular footprint.
Handmade to last a very, very, very long time.
No chinese or indonesian slaves were used in the manufacture.
Made in America, by an American (that and two dollars could get
me a coffee
Enclosure will resist cracking when dropped on hard surface.
4 Controls.

Cons;
Only a square wave output, which turns into a triangle wave at
500 kHz due to slew limit.
2mV nominal output offset (never goes to exactly zero)
DC offset not adjustable (signal goes from 0 to 5 or between as
set by level control)
No modulation input.
No DC power input option (just the 9 volt battery)
Doesn't go below 1 Hz or above 1 MHz
Nicely labelled, but not painted-on lettering.
No anti-skid feet.
0 buttons or toggle switches.

This unit is designed for portable use, by technicians in the field, or
by engineers relocating their project from the lab to living room.
It may be the only portable unit of it's capacity to have a bnc / 50
ohm output - or - thumb-screw terminals for attaching small components.


Given that it is good quality, with good, but slightly non-conventional
appearance, what would you expect to pay for one if you needed it?

They take several hours apiece to make one, but a buyer wouldn't know
that... all surface mount components, lead solder, cleaned double-sided
boards, conformal coated .. etc.

Thanks very much for considering my question regarding the asking price
for this unit.

- Geoff

I wouldn't really want one, I would (and did) buy an old Wavetek 142, for
about $100 plus $100 shipping. You might look at the front panel controls
on that one, I believe that they are particularly well thought out. Having
an extra output which is not 50 Ohm but can drive high currents (as you
suggested) would be a nice extra feature for playing with AC motors etc.

Chris

 

[engineer]

Actually it's 3.5 inches by 1 inch by 5.5 inches in case size.. it's
just that the banana jacks and knobs extend that to other dimension.

I've got some photos, and will mail you something from the first
version which is nearly identical except for improvements in labelling.

 

[engineer]

Actually it's 3.5 inches by 1 inch by 5.5 inches in case size.. it's
just that the banana jacks and knobs extend that to other dimension.

I've got some photos, and will mail you something from the first
version which is nearly identical except for improvements in labelling.

 

[David L. Jones]

Actually it's 3.5 inches by 1 inch by 5.5 inches in case size.. it's
just that the banana jacks and knobs extend that to other dimension.

I've got some photos, and will mail you something from the first
version which is nearly identical except for improvements in labelling.

Cool.
Post them on the web so we can all see.

Dave

 

[engineer]

It does drive those currents, but the evaluation of impedance is
certainly not exact, and is based on a nominal 40 ohm output impedance
of the driver chip and 10 ohms in series with that (protects the
amplifier from major overcurrent situations) .. the impedance goes up
with frequency.. according to the spec sheet, but it does drive across
the 1 to 3.5 volt range at a megahertz into a 50 ohm load... barely but
indeed... at 1 MHz the slew limit squashes the range a bit.

I'll put the new label scheme on a new one and post a picture or that
within 12 hours or so.

Thanks for your input .
Geoff

 

[engineer]

It does drive those currents, but the evaluation of impedance is
certainly not exact, and is based on a nominal 40 ohm output impedance
of the driver chip and 10 ohms in series with that (protects the
amplifier from major overcurrent situations) .. the impedance goes up
with frequency.. according to the spec sheet, but it does drive across
the 1 to 3.5 volt range at a megahertz into a 50 ohm load... barely but
indeed... at 1 MHz the slew limit squashes the range a bit.

I'll put the new label scheme on a new one and post a picture or that
within 12 hours or so.

Thanks for your input .
Geoff

 

[engineer]

Images of the signal generator can be found at;

http://home.comcast.net/~gegallo/UBER/UBER.htm

Thanks

 

[David L. Jones]

Images of the signal generator can be found at;

http://home.comcast.net/~gegallo/UBER/UBER.htm

Thanks

Very nice!

Dave