D
Dan Bloomquist
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
Jim said:Wrong until shown otherwise.
That takes math. Don doesn't do that.
Best, Dan.
Jim said:Wrong until shown otherwise.
Gymmy said:"Ray Drouillard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
I wonder if Thomas Lee Elifritz has a job?Well, you could participate, it's called condensed matter physics,
employment is guaranteed.
Don said:Right.
The exergy goes sharply down when you include the storage charges.
But the storage can be used many times over.Don said:Glenn Martin wrote:
Energy density has everything to do with a fixed installation.
The cost of the installation is inversely proportional to the CUBE of
the energy density.
Ummm, yes I could profit from them. I could use them to power my lights.If someone gave you an infinite supply of six percent efficient solar
cells, there is no way you could profit from them. The costs of the
infrastructure and amortization would guarantee you a net energy sink.
Similarly, no means of storing hydrogen is known that does not grossly
exceed the value of the stored energy.
Anthony Matonak said:This will give you the Burden of Civilization per object installed.
Since this will be a complex series of resources, man-hours and
other such things, Don might suggest reducing it to the common and
universal unit of Gallons-of-Gasoline because everything is really
made from that anyhow.
Looked at in this fashion, nearly everything is a complete net
loss. Well, except for Gasoline of course...
Anthony
OK Here's the million dollar question. How do I make a profit by payingGymmy Bob said:Quite simply put, for some of the boneheads here.
If the payback for solar panel system is 10 years to the breakeven point
and the electrolysis process is 40% efficient, then the payback for your
hydrogen for solar system is 25 years.
How long will you live past 25 years to make a profit from it? Will the
solar cells last that long? Will your electrodes last that long? What will
you store the hydrogen in?
OK...OK..so now it takes 50 years to break even on your solar/hydrogen
system. You better start right away then and don't borrow any money to do it
or you may never break even.
Colourants and odorants are to allow easy detection of leaks. Natural gasAs far as a total rework of appliances -- well, that simply isn't
necessary. It's common around here to buy appliances that will run on
propane or methane depending on the size of the orifice that is
installed. To run all the appliances in our house on hydrogen, we would
need to change some piping, and some orifices (known by some as 'jets').
It wouldn't be trivial, but it wouldn't be much harder than changing
from propane to natural gas. It is certainly far from being a 'total
rework'.
I am wondering what you are talking about with colorants and odorants.
Why do you want to color the hydrogen gas? Also, why not use the same
odorant that we currently use with propane and methane?
Ray Drouillard
Don Lancaster said:Exergy is a measure of the thermodynamically reversibly recoverable
energy fraction.
Dan said:I've recently, and in the past repeatedly, posted them. I guess I'll
have to put it in a webpage. (like so many page I'd like to get done.)
5% of the heating value of coal gets to the wheels of a vehicle via
hydrogen.
Best, Dan.
Dan said:Latch on to what you want 'to hear', or, do some research and quit trolling.
Best, Dan.
OK Here's the million dollar question. How do I make a profit by paying
for conventional power?
Glenn Martin
william said:I've already said do
the math without calculating the time value of money, the point still
stands.
Glenn said:Colourants and odorants are to allow easy detection of leaks. Natural gas
is odorless. It has a rotten egg-like smell added so leaks can be instantly
noticed. There are cases every year where someone who's lost the sense of
smell dies in a gas explosion.
Mind you, since staic discharge is enough to set off hydrogen, no way do I
want it in my house. The end of the garden is fine for me though.
Glenn Martin
Glenn said:Don, what does this mean? What is an enrgy fraction? What does "reversibly
recoverable" mean?
Why do you apply "amortization"; a financial term, to physical measurements
of energy conversion efficiency?
Glenn Martin
Ray said:I briefly looked through energyforfun.pdf, and it looked interesting --
but I didn't find the actual efficiency of electrolysis. In any case,
multiply that by about 0.65 (the efficiency of a decent fuel cell)...
Ray Drouillard
Eric Gisin said:You won't get more than 40% back, less if compact storage required. Worse than
any battery.
Don Lancaster said:You won't even get ZERO percent back.
You will get less than zero back under today's economics when full cost
accounted.
http://www.tinaja.com/h2gas01.asp
Dan Bloomquist said:Quit yapping. Where are you going to get the hydrogen?
Best, Dan.