Re: Phonetic Alphabet Tables

[Geoff]

They are nothing like semaphone.


Crap. Semaphore spells out the message letter
by letter, like morse does, but using arms/flags etc.

Signal flags are nothing like semaphore
either and are still used to some extent.

Actually, landing signals are NOT flag signals. Like semaphore, they MAY
use flags, or even lights, but that is for convenience, not meaning.

I DO know what semaphore is, as I do know what landing signals are,
something that you obviously do not. Please do not confuse either with
the international code of signals, which is a letter code, using one, two
or three letters to convey a meaning. These letters may be passed by
morse (sound or light signalling), semaphore or by international code
flags.

Semaphore signals are given here :
<http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/semaphore.html>

Landing signals : <http://www.fedpubs.com/subject/boat/life_saving.htm>

The international code of signals (Flags):
<http://flagspot.net/flags/flagicsa.html> et al

The International code of signals (meanings):
<http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/pubs/pubs_j_show_sections.html?
dpath=ICOS&ptid=7&rid=1466>

The above are international in meaning. Various navies had (still have?)
their own private codes, hence the "international code" flag.

In semaphore, a particular arm (or flag) position, indicates a certain
character, in landing signals, which incidentally are nothing to do with
aircraft, a certain arm (or flag) position indicates a defined meaning.

You may also wish to know that morse code may be sent by flag, in a
similar manner to semaphore. However, semaphore is the more efficient
code requiring only one flag movement, whereas morse will typically
require several flag movements.

YG

 

[Rod Speed]

Actually, landing signals are NOT flag signals.

Never said they were. The word either is there for a reason.

Like semaphore, they MAY use flags, or even
lights, but that is for convenience, not meaning.

Completely irrelevant to whether they are semaphore.

I DO know what semaphore is, as I do know what
landing signals are, something that you obviously do not.

We'll see.

Please do not confuse either with the international
code of signals, which is a letter code, using one,
two or three letters to convey a meaning.

Wasnt even being discussed.

These letters may be passed by morse (sound or light
signalling), semaphore or by international code flags.

And like I originally asked, I doubt anyone is
bothering with semaphore FOR FUN anymore.

Semaphore signals are given here :
<http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/semaphore.html>

No news to me boy.

Landing signals : <http://www.fedpubs.com/subject/boat/life_saving.htm>

Clearly nothing to do with semaphore, as I said.

And that is a stupid reference,
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/signals.pdf
is much more useful.

The international code of signals (Flags):
<http://flagspot.net/flags/flagicsa.html> et al

The International code of signals (meanings):
<http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/pubs/pubs_j_show_sections.html?
dpath=ICOS&ptid=7&rid=1466>

All completely irrelevant to whether lifesaving signals are semaphore.

The above are international in meaning. Various navies had (still have?)
their own private codes, hence the "international code" flag.

All completely irrelevant to whether lifesaving signals are semaphore.

In semaphore, a particular arm (or flag)
position, indicates a certain character,

No news to me boy.

in landing signals, which incidentally are nothing to do with aircraft,
a certain arm (or flag) position indicates a defined meaning.

So aint semaphore, stupid.

You may also wish to know that morse code may
be sent by flag, in a similar manner to semaphore.

Aint relevant to what is being discussed,
whether lifeguards use semaphore. They dont.

However, semaphore is the more efficient code
requiring only one flag movement, whereas morse
will typically require several flag movements.

More completely irrelevant waffle. Nothing to do with that stupid
claim you made about lifeguards still using semaphore. They dont.

 

[Binary Era]

Binary Era wrote


SURE you dont, arsehole.


It was in the quoting you just carefully deleted, fuckwit.

It was, but the reference was by someone else and referred to using
the Longbow. It was not used in your reply, which was what I commented
on. I refer you to your last comment above. HAND

 

[Rod Speed]

It was, but the reference was by someone
else and referred to using the Longbow.

And that is what I commented on, fuckwit.

It was not used in your reply,

Wrong. That is obviously what I commented on, fuckwit.

which was what I commented on.

Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of your
predicament better than that pathetic effort, fuckwit.

I refer you to your last comment above. HAND

GASYHUADBB, fuckwit.

 

[Binary Era]

GASYHUADBB, fuckwit.

Oh dear. I was following netiquette and trimmed my reply to the points
you raised. As the thread was titled 'Uses of Morse code (Was Phonetic
Alphabet Tables)' that's what I limited my reply to. Don't you have
netiquette in your country?.....Let's see .... dot au .... nope, that
let's you out. Sorry. And I see you're following the current strategy
of a superpower: bad language isn't working, so let's have more bad
language.

Goodbye!

 

[Geoff]

More completely irrelevant waffle. Nothing to do with that stupid
claim you made about lifeguards still using semaphore. They dont.

Where did I say that? What I said was "The signals they (the lifeguard
equivalents) use are called "landing signals". They differ somewhat from
semaphore, but the principal is the same."

In that they are both waving arms/flags etc. about they are the same, but
the meaning of the movements are quite different. Particular arm positions
in semaphore mean different characters, unlike landing signals, where each
"arm position" means a different action should be taken.

YG

 

[Jeff]

Where did I say that? What I said was "The signals they (the lifeguard
equivalents) use are called "landing signals". They differ somewhat from
semaphore, but the principal is the same."

In that they are both waving arms/flags etc. about they are the same, but
the meaning of the movements are quite different. Particular arm positions
in semaphore mean different characters, unlike landing signals, where each
"arm position" means a different action should be taken.

I doubt it you will find many lifeguards in the UK who have even
heard of landing signals let alone use them. (particularly the
ones that sit by my local swimming pool and blow whistles). This is
probably because no swimmers and 99% of small boat owners will know
what they mean either.

Jeff

 

[see sea oh ecks at you aitch see dot comm]

Learning morse these days is largely an academic exercise, a bit like
learning Latin. Ok, maybe you'll get to talk to the pope one day but the
reality is that every one has moved on.

Actually, to keep this in context, who the hell cares whether other
radio services still use Morse code regularly or not. We in the
Amateur Service DO still use it regularly. Surely that is what is
of significance, n'est pas?
--
Chris Cox, N0UK/G4JEC NIC Handle: CC345
UnitedHealth Technologies, MN013-N300, UNIX Solutions Group
6150 Trenton Lane North, Plymouth, MN 55440 1-763-744-1723
email: [email protected] (work) [email protected] (home)
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[see sea oh ecks at you aitch see dot comm]

I doubt that the _Royal_ Navy uses it any more, but certainly other
navies do.

Doubt it as much as you like; I'm sure that Commander Trev DOES KNOW
FOR SURE that the Andrew still use it.
--
Chris Cox, N0UK/G4JEC NIC Handle: CC345
UnitedHealth Technologies, MN013-N300, UNIX Solutions Group
6150 Trenton Lane North, Plymouth, MN 55440 1-763-744-1723
email: [email protected] (work) [email protected] (home)
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[Brian Reay]

Actually, to keep this in context, who the hell cares whether other
radio services still use Morse code regularly or not. We in the
Amateur Service DO still use it regularly. Surely that is what is
of significance, n'est pas?

Well, it is more significant than which other services use it. However, that
we use it was never the basis for it being an international requirement.

SO, no matter how you argue, there hasn't been a real reason to keep Morse
as a requirement for years.

Of course, our Irish friend will jump in now and ask about the Morse
Appreciation. For his benefit, I will say I don't see the reason for
maintaining it either but have better things to concern myself with than
worrying about it. If he sees it as an 'issue' let him argue for its
removal.

--
73
Brian
G8OSN
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk for FREE training material for all UK
amateur radio licences
www.phoenixradioclub.org.uk - a RADIO club specifically for those wishing
to learn more about amateur radio

 

[zpk]

as someone was told in the early 1990;s at an iaru meeting...

amateur radio is not marine radio.
if the maritime service wish to drop morse then thats their business.

vote called... proposor of drop-morse-in-199x was disappointed with
the vote.


also. itu publication on morse requirement also sated no-service
uses it.

Well, it is more significant than which other services use it. However, that
we use it was never the basis for it being an international requirement.

SO, no matter how you argue, there hasn't been a real reason to keep Morse
as a requirement for years.

Of course, our Irish friend will jump in now and ask about the Morse
Appreciation.
For his benefit, I will say I don't see the reason for
maintaining it either but have better things to concern myself

hmmmmm thats strange...
i suppose job done..no poiint in writing letters to the ra/rsgb
anymore about getting rid of the NONSENSE REQUIREMENT ????????
youre on record as stating it to be kept for all new licencsees.

with than
worrying about it. If he sees it as an 'issue' let him argue for its
removal.

REMOVAL !!!

NOT ON YOUR NELLY.

I SAY 12WPM FOR HF OR STAY ON VHF.

NONE OF THIS NAMBY PAMBY STUFF.

IF I CAN PASS 12WPM (THE SECOND TIME) THEN ANYONE WHO THINKS
THEYRE BETTER THAN ME CAN PASS IT (ON THE FIRST TIME??)

 

[zpk]

It was in the quoting you just carefully deleted, XXXXXXX.

begorrah begorrah...

shure isnt dat wonderful language to be typing on this newsgroup ?


what will all these YOUNG M3's think now?

 

[zpk]

ahh now here me lad...
less o' dat language on here.


this is a cb newsgroup.

10-4 and breaker breaker is sort-of-alright(within reason)
but stronger stuff is just not on.

there are young eyes on this newsgroup.

according to one lead instructor they can be as young a 7 or 8.

 

[zpk]

We've been there, done that. Check 26-28 MHz.

hmmmm me thinks..youre gonna get a message from a
certain rsgb lead instructor

you might even be thrown to the killfile.

 

[zpk]

I'm all in favor of no-code HF licensing as long as they don't hand over
the CW-only bands in the process.

that has already been predicted on this newsgroup and according to a
recent posting... the attitude is already present.
cw sub-bands are next.

In the US anyway, with the watering down of the requirements I really am
suspect of anybody still whining about having to do a couple of hours of
no-brainer study to obtain an Extra Class licence. On a skill level its
about like knowing how to cook rice.

exactly.
no brainer.

but you can get a 5wpm morse test
after 4weeks practice 30minutes a day.

not much effort is it ?
but it is enough to cause 2500 to go away
and get an m3 licence instead of an m0.

and some of these moaners are on this newsgroup.

 

[zpk]

I'm not sure anti-CW is always the correct term- it suggests people want to
'ban' CW. I don't actually ever recall anyone suggesting that. If they did,
I won't support it.

but you DID refer to the morse requirement as a NONSENSE and then
referred to an advanced B-licence as a B-licence with the morse joke
apprecitaion(with crib sheet)
THEREBY ADOPTING MORSE CODE AS SOME SORT OF EXTRA QUALIFICATION TO
INCREASE STATUS RELATIVE TO SOMEONE WITH ONLY AN ORDINARY B-LICENCE.

Been happening here for years- even when we had a written exam and
compulsory CW test for ANY licence.

WHICH YOU HAVE AGAIN NOW.
REFUSAL TO SIT MORSE JOKE APPRECIATION = NO LICENCE AT ALL.

Probably the 'worst' period of behaviour
in the UK hobby was the mid / late 70s- at which time there was still the
written exam.


Odd, we have the same.

INCENTIVE?
YOU WANNA DA HF ... YOU PASSA DA TEST.

THATS INCENTIVE.

Agreed 100%

OH OH... SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE.

I've not heard anyone 'whining' about wanting to get the UK equivalent,
having gone through the other stages. Quite the converse.

I've got a batch of amateurs taking the UK Advanced exam on Monday- we are
already looking for things to study next. Morse is on the list of
possibles. (even though it isn't required any more here), as is taking the
US exams.

MORSE ?
oh of course...
....after all you have sat the
compulsory morse appreciation(with crib sheet)


then again....its ONLY " on the list of possibles "

not much chance then.

 

[zpk]

You dont see too many still bothering with smoke
signals, carrier pigeons, pony express, etc etc etc tho.

Does anyone bother with semaphore anymore ? Spose some loons might.

pse explain the line in the carpet either side of the cenral area in
the house of commons then ?

please explain why black rod still beats on the door ?

please explain why you drive on the left ?

please explain why you dont have the euro, given that nearly everyone
else around you has moved on.

 

[zpk]

Signallers are prized members of such specialist groups.

anyone with a few brain cells that can work in real-time without
referring to a crib-sheet are always prized.

they are also copied a lot more than those who cant (or wont)

 

[zpk]

Not with that specific question of requiring all pilots to be morse fluent it aint.

And that's because there is no reduction in safety involved
with having the NDBs morse ident so slowly that everyone
can check the ident against what's printed on the paperwork.

In fact the better NDB receivers decode it
automatically and display the ident in text form.
Completely trivial technology.

fact:
information from a beacon shall not be used
until it has been correctly identified.



fact:
cpl and higher pilots are required
to pass a six words a minute morse *test*

the INCENTIVE to pass the morse test is
IF YOU WANNA YOUR PILOTS LICENCE - YOU PASSA DA TEST.

but of course, a very similar incentive was not acceptable
to over 2500 people





Laugh? I nealry bought a DV27 with a neon light on top.

 

[john]

You people sure know how to beat the shit out of a threadYikes
_ _ ... ... _ _

.... _._

kip