Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Re: Oil/Pellet Stoves?

B

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why do you even bother, you top posting ass.

PLONK!


Ground gradient step potential

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"

--
Here's another way of looking at it. Every single vote that is cast that
should not be allowed disenfranchises someone who legitimately could
vote and disagreed with the illegal voter. That makes keeping illegal
votes out just as important as making sure that legal ones are allowed.
Of course do we hear any of that from Democrats? They don't want
compulsory ID required to vote, they don't want to even exclude illegal
aliens or people who call themselves Mary Poppins. I'm supposed to take
these people, Democrats, as serious, well considered, politically
believable individuals?
 
Good point and I agree. The trouble is I don't want to set up a pattern I
That's a good point

But cant one set themselves up with MUTIPE sources of
heat or energy?

Say have a corn stove as well as maybe electric or
propane heat?

Again the key here is "multiple" sources
 
G

Gymmy Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Trolling POS

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
 
Our current house has both propane and electric heat.
Propane is a backup furnace just in case the electric can't keep
up during our nasty & cold winters.

Plus we have a fireplace but that tends to let in more cold air
then produce heat.

If we were going to stay in this house much longer, we would have
a corn or grain stove also.

Yeah.... Ii live in Missouri ... LOT of corn grown here
.....and I looked at some VERY nice corn stoves last
year. They really are much better than most people
think.

Question..... what kind of propane heat do you have?
Is it a forced air system? Or one of those vent less
heaters mounted in a wall?

Same question for electric heat. What type is it?
Forced air or baseboard resistance heat?

Also.....which form do you use the most? Propane or
electric and why?

Just trying to understand your heating strategy. lol
 
F

Fred McGalliard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel M. Eichen said:
Check under the pine cones .......

Under the pine cones, a layer of pine nedles, and in our forest, a thick
layer of leaves from the deciduous trees. Then under that a layer of compost
in various stages of disentegration, some worms and such. Then under that a
rich loamy soil. No coal. No oil. Except for the top few inches of fresh dry
material, nothing burnable.
 
F

Fred McGalliard

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Bill Bond
....
So how much energy input is required to grow corn? Include the fossil
fuel used to make the fertilizer.

Required? Only sunlight and rain. Corn grows naturally. Required to produce
a high yield of a monocrop on worn out soil? Different question, different
answer.
 
J

Joel M. Eichen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Under the pine cones, a layer of pine nedles, and in our forest, a thick
layer of leaves from the deciduous trees. Then under that a layer of compost
in various stages of disentegration, some worms and such. Then under that a
rich loamy soil. No coal. No oil. Except for the top few inches of fresh dry
material, nothing burnable.

Burn the worms .......
 
F

Fred McGalliard

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Bill Bonde ( ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '' )"
Here's another way of looking at it. Every single vote that is cast that
should not be allowed disenfranchises someone who legitimately could
vote and disagreed with the illegal voter. That makes keeping illegal
votes out just as important as making sure that legal ones are allowed.
Of course do we hear any of that from Democrats?

There are Democrats, and there are Republicans, And then there are just us
US citizens. The feds have been playing at this long enough. It is time to
put national election standards in place and pony up for the bill, political
and economic. Why aren't the Republicans fighting to see that the lines are
short, the ballots counted, and every citizen who can be coherced to vote
is, and is counted? Why because those are the democratic votes, of course.
But wait, weren't they just americans just a minute ago? Can you tell the
difference between a RepDem party animal and a patriotic US citizen? Sure.
The citizen fights for the right of folks he disagrees with to vote fairly.
The RepDem insists that the only fair vote is a vote for their party. F***
em all, but right now, vote democratic just to keep the reps in check.
 
V

v

Jan 1, 1970
0
Required? Only sunlight and rain. Corn grows naturally....
Nope. Don't see many spontaneous fields of corn around. Its plowed
planted tilled etc. The "no till" methods use great qtys of
herbicide. I've grown corn (small qty). Its not all that 'natural'.
Leave the corn with only sunlight and rain, and you'll not have very
much corn. And it still has to be harvested.
 
B

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
"Bill Bonde ( ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '' )"


There are Democrats, and there are Republicans, And then there are just us
US citizens. The feds have been playing at this long enough. It is time to
put national election standards in place and pony up for the bill, political
and economic. Why aren't the Republicans fighting to see that the lines are
short, the ballots counted, and every citizen who can be coherced to vote
is, and is counted?
Why do you want people who don't pay the slightest attention to what is
going on in the world, or even just to politics, to vote? It's random,
like deciding an election by using a drunk monkey with darts. Why even
bother with the election?

Why because those are the democratic votes, of course.
But wait, weren't they just americans just a minute ago? Can you tell the
difference between a RepDem party animal and a patriotic US citizen? Sure.
The citizen fights for the right of folks he disagrees with to vote fairly.
The RepDem insists that the only fair vote is a vote for their party. F***
em all, but right now, vote democratic just to keep the reps in check.
It's funny how people complain that the elections are close and don't
get it that there are lots of people like you who vote in such a way
that they will remain close, no mandate.
 
G

GreyGeek

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
We tried shish-kabobing but wasted way too much time.

Joel

While teaching a 9 grade earth science class I had my students study
survival techniques. Among those was learning to 'live off the land'.
I had them collect several dozen Canadian nightcrawlers. They gutted them
to remove the grid from the craw. Then put them into boiling water, with
successive changes until the foaming caused by the slim quit. Then they
fried them in oil, must like shoe string potato chips. Salted, the kids
remarked that they tasted almost just like shoe string potato chips, except
that they were more 'chewy'. Worms are 78% protein.

Another food I had them learn how to make is Pond Scum soup. The green
Duckwort, algae and other green plants that float on the surface of a pond
are collected. They are put into a suitable metal container, covered with
water, placed on a fire and allowed to boil down to one third the original
volume. The water is restored and boiling resumed till 1/3 the original
volume is reached. By then the soup has the consistance and color of Pea
soup, and tastes pretty much the same.

The third thing I had them taste, as an emergency ration, is Sow Chunks.
You can gain weight eating that easily obtainable (in rural areas) ration.
 
F

Fred McGalliard

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
It's funny how people complain that the elections are close and don't
get it that there are lots of people like you who vote in such a way
that they will remain close, no mandate.

I want freedom. Not just for the few who toe the party line, but for even
such odd balls as me. Give one party a true mandate, and they don't have to
listen to complaints about how some outsiders are hurt by their contentious
rullings. I want them to listen, and have to get their opposite members to
agree, before they can make law, or start another damn war. Keep em weak or
there is no way we can bring em to heel. Of course now Bush claims a
mandate. A 3% mandate, but a mandate nontheless. Even those who voted for
him don't seem to intend that it be a mandate.
 
B

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"


I want freedom. Not just for the few who toe the party line, but for even
such odd balls as me.
As long as your freedom doesn't involve a falafel waffle with you, Mike
Moore and Bill O'Reilly. On that I draw a line in the chickpeas.


Give one party a true mandate, and they don't have to
listen to complaints about how some outsiders are hurt by their contentious
rullings. I want them to listen, and have to get their opposite members to
agree, before they can make law, or start another damn war. Keep em weak or
there is no way we can bring em to heel.
So you like close elections. You Libs are going to have to figure out
whether or not close is good or not. Usually you claim it means we have
a divided country and we should have civil war or separate into two
countries, one blue and one red.

Of course now Bush claims a
mandate. A 3% mandate, but a mandate nontheless. Even those who voted for
him don't seem to intend that it be a mandate.
It's more of a mandate than last time. And we need to do certain things,
figure out Social Security for one. No reason we can't all work together
on that.
 
B

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
"Bill Bond
...

Required? Only sunlight and rain. Corn grows naturally. Required to produce
a high yield of a monocrop on worn out soil? Different question, different
answer.
Is your answer really an answer to the actual question at all?
 
A

Anthony Matonak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill said:
Is your answer really an answer to the actual question at all?

Was the question actually a question at all? In my opinion, the answer
fits the question well enough. Corn can grow without human intervention
and fossil fuels. Therefore the lower limit for additional energy input
(apart from sunlight) is Zero. There are, of course, no upper limits.

Anthony
 
B

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anthony said:
Was the question actually a question at all?
If you are going to answer every question with a question, we will be
stuck in a warp of some sort for a long time.

In my opinion, the answer
fits the question well enough. Corn can grow without human intervention
and fossil fuels.
What is 'corn'? It used to be most any grain. Of course these plants can
grow wild. What point does that make? I'm pretty sure the point wasn't
anything about that. I think I was asking about the real fossil fuel
load required to make the corn. If you don't know, that's all right, I
expected as much.
 
A

Anthony Matonak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill said:
If you are going to answer every question with a question, we will be
stuck in a warp of some sort for a long time.

Perhaps, but generally speaking, most answers simply raise more
questions. In this case, the original question was too unfocused,
loaded with unwritten assumptions and had an apparent agenda.

The answer to "How much energy is required to grow corn?" is somewhere
between zero and infinity. It's already been answered and the answer
doesn't really provide any enlightenment.

There are more useful but related questions that can be asked.
For instance, How much energy is used by corn farmers in the United
States on average? How much energy could corn provide if grown as a
fuel instead of food? Is corn the best fuel crop?

Do I have the answers to these questions? No, but they shouldn't be
terribly hard to find if someone was actually interested.

Perhaps a more pertinent question is, When dealing with a waste product
(spoiled corn perhaps) do you count the energy used to make it? After
all, it wasn't made or grown to become waste. A better method might be
to look at the savings of using a waste product compared to having to
dispose of it.
What is 'corn'? It used to be most any grain. Of course these plants can
grow wild. What point does that make? I'm pretty sure the point wasn't
anything about that. I think I was asking about the real fossil fuel
load required to make the corn. If you don't know, that's all right, I
expected as much.

I don't know what farmers in the United States use to grow corn. I do
know that there is a wide variation in the amount of fertilizer, the
amount of water pumping, the use of pesticides and the sources for all
of these. There is, therefore, no single answer and any answer would
apply only to those farmers growing corn as a food. This means the
answer will be completely useless for estimating what is required to
grow corn as a fuel because the methods, even the corn itself, would
be very different.

We could ask the question, How much corn goes to waste every year?

Anthony
 
M

Mike Wilcox

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anthony said:
Perhaps, but generally speaking, most answers simply raise more
questions. In this case, the original question was too unfocused,
loaded with unwritten assumptions and had an apparent agenda.

The answer to "How much energy is required to grow corn?" is somewhere
between zero and infinity. It's already been answered and the answer
doesn't really provide any enlightenment.

There are more useful but related questions that can be asked.
For instance, How much energy is used by corn farmers in the United
States on average? How much energy could corn provide if grown as a
fuel instead of food? Is corn the best fuel crop?

Do I have the answers to these questions? No, but they shouldn't be
terribly hard to find if someone was actually interested.

Perhaps a more pertinent question is, When dealing with a waste product
(spoiled corn perhaps) do you count the energy used to make it? After
all, it wasn't made or grown to become waste. A better method might be
to look at the savings of using a waste product compared to having to
dispose of it.



I don't know what farmers in the United States use to grow corn. I do
know that there is a wide variation in the amount of fertilizer, the
amount of water pumping, the use of pesticides and the sources for all
of these. There is, therefore, no single answer and any answer would
apply only to those farmers growing corn as a food. This means the
answer will be completely useless for estimating what is required to
grow corn as a fuel because the methods, even the corn itself, would
be very different.

We could ask the question, How much corn goes to waste every year?

Anthony


I believe all of these points have been covered here in the past couple
of years, a search on google groups should be easy to turn it up. I do
remember charts being posted that showed corn to be pretty crappy as far
as alcohol production was concerned. As a crop it's probably one of the
most chemical dependant one there is and requires a huge outlay in
machinery and energy. I know here in Ontario, Canada, corn is being
dried using natural gas ;~)
 
Top