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Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

  • Thread starter William Sommerwerck
  • Start date
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ignoramus20157 said:
245 volts is a perfectly normal voltage. It corresponds to 122.5 volts
AC from a regular outlet.

Oddly enough, that's exactly what I've measured (give or take a few tenths)
in the MSOE power lab (which is equipped with 208V 3 phase), and very nearly
the same at my own bench at home.

Tim
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich. said:
It is not regular practice to inform the owner, unless something is
found to be wrong. Having 245v in the building is not normal, and there
is a lot of equipment out there that does not have taps. Equipment
without taps could be damaged by this higher than usual voltage.

It is the responsibility of the electrician to make sure the equipment
he is wiring can correctly run on the power being supplied. IMO the
electrician did not do his job correctly.
guess you don't get out much!
 
R

Rich.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gunner Asch said:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:04:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"


So then what am I? I passed the tests, at one time held a (California)
C7 and C10 license, ( as responsible managing employee for a large
company who before me had NO liceneses), have worked for the past 12 yrs
as a machine shop electrician (with no failures to date), CNC repair
tech and so forth.

However..Ive refused to belong to any union since 1974, when my 6 week
stint as a UAW worker left me cold about unions.

Am I just a "handyman" because I dont belong to a union <spit>?

My business cards indicate that I do electrical (non licensed) as well
as CNC and Machine Tool Repair.

So am I simply a "handyman"?

Inquiring minds really want to know.

Gunner

Yes, you're a glorified handyman...happy? ;-)

Yes you have the knowledge and experience, but as long as you do not hold a
valid license, you can call yourself an electrician, but you cannot call
yourself a licensed electrician. As an unlicensed electrician you cannot
LEGALLY perform ANY electrical work outside of your own single family
residence. BTW, union or not makes no difference, it's state law we're
talking about.
 
R

Rich.

Jan 1, 1970
0
James Sweet said:
Depends on where you are. Here in the US, the work has to be inspected by
an inspector, not an electrician. You have to be a licensed electrician to
be hired by most electrical contracting companies, but there is no law
against unlicensed people electrical work. I've replaced electrical
service panels and added circuits for renovations in the homes of quite a
few friends and family members, I'm not licensed, but it was no trouble to
get a permit and have the work inspected when it was complete. Even
licensed electricians have to get their work inspected.

You're fooling yourself. You cannot legally do any electrical work at the
homes of your friends or family. If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
RoyJ said:
And since there is likely no load in shop when the install was taking
place, the 245 would be a higher than normal reading.

But I question the use of "3phase" and "245 volts" in the OP question.
Around here, 245 volts would be perfectly normal for a single phase
circuit, very high for a "standard" 208/3 phase delta.
We still use 208 for ligthing only..
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Depends on where you are. Here in the US, the work has to be inspected
by an inspector, not an electrician. You have to be a licensed
electrician to be hired by most electrical contracting companies, but
there is no law against unlicensed people electrical work. I've replaced
electrical service panels and added circuits for renovations in the
homes of quite a few friends and family members, I'm not licensed, but
it was no trouble to get a permit and have the work inspected when it
was complete. Even licensed electricians have to get their work inspected.

That depends entirely on the jurisdiction. Several cities have
tradesmen full employment laws. Some have no inspectors at all.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yet the taps are still made available on equipment, you idiot. That is
also what may have caused to over-voltage condition, IDIOT. Improper tap
selection does cause failure modes.

Trying to move the goal posts again, Dimbulb? The fact is that there
is no 220V service, so 245V is not 11% OV as you said it was.
You are so 'never was'.

Tell us, how hard is it to be always wrong, AlwaysWrong?
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt said:
You're nuts. Maybe at the end of a 100 yard long run. Maybe.

There is no reason, however, for the entire feed to a building to sag
that far between loaded and unloaded.
it's most likely the feed to the building is 480/460 and a transformer
is being used.
I don't know to many electric companies that will supply 240 3 phase
any more.

I'd be willing to bet that the transformer came along with the move and
that being the case, yes, it can sag abit when other equipment get going
because I can't picture a huge xformer in use here.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
You're fooling yourself. You cannot legally do any electrical work at the
homes of your friends or family.

Again, that depends entirely on the jurisdiction. Some areas don't
have trades full employment laws.
If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!
 
R

Rich.

Jan 1, 1970
0
What hogwash!

Oh really?

Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/200811...licensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Here's an ABC article telling you flat out that even those hiring unlicensed
contractors face arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CreativeConsumer/story?id=2624448

Prison time for fraud.
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/PressReleases/PressReleases2003/news20031222.asp

Another sting operation.
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/target_12/local_wpri_target_12_unlicensed_contractors_sting_20090504_nk

I could go on and on posting these links, but I don't see any reason to beat
you over your head with your own ignorance.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh really?

Yes really.
Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/200811...licensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Here's an ABC article telling you flat out that even those hiring unlicensed
contractors face arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CreativeConsumer/story?id=2624448

Prison time for fraud.
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/PressReleases/PressReleases2003/news20031222.asp

Another sting operation.
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/target_12/local_wpri_target_12_unlicensed_contractors_sting_20090504_nk

I could go on and on posting these links, but I don't see any reason to beat
you over your head with your own ignorance.

Yes, please do. ...for *every* jurisdiction in the US.
 
S

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt

Jan 1, 1970
0
So then what am I? I passed the tests, at one time held a (California)
C7 and C10 license, ( as responsible managing employee for a large
company who before me had NO liceneses), have worked for the past 12 yrs
as a machine shop electrician (with no failures to date), CNC repair
tech and so forth.

However..Ive refused to belong to any union since 1974, when my 6 week
stint as a UAW worker left me cold about unions.

Am I just a "handyman" because I dont belong to a union <spit>?

My business cards indicate that I do electrical (non licensed) as well
as CNC and Machine Tool Repair.

So am I simply a "handyman"?

Inquiring minds really want to know.

You can get a license without being in the union.

Excuses do not make you qualified. Especially if the tests you took
were way back in '74.
 
M

Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
William said:
I didn't miss the point (I think). He was doing the work of an electrician.
And whether or not he was a licensed electrician, he is still morally
responsible for the quality of his work. (Think Hamurabi.)

Only if it can be shown that he did something wrong. I don't know what
US tolerances on voltage are but in the UK 245v on a nominally 240 line
(these days 230v with asymetric tolerancing) wouldn't raise eyebrows.
No, there wouldn't be. But if he botched the job, he has to be held
responsible. Doesn't he?

Iff he botched the job. The kit worked for a while after he left. And he
did not claim to be a qualified electrician.

Had he connected the machine chassis to live and electrocuted someone
then it would be a different matter. But even then the employer who got
in a cut price handyman to do a qualified industrial electricians job
would still be guilty of more serious fundamental health and safety
offences for not having the installation inspected by a competent person
before switching it on. What are the US regs like on employer liability?
Of course, one might argue that if the person who hired him /knew/ he wasn't
an electrician, and didn't have the work inspected, then he (the hirer) is
responsible for whatever went wrong.

Exactly. And that is how the insurers would argue it to avoid paying out
a dime if the whole building burnt down as a result of unqualified
electrical work that had not been properly inspected before switch on. I
don't see that the handyman has anything to answer for although he may
still have problems with frivolous litigation from the OP's mate.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
S

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt

Jan 1, 1970
0
As a CNC tech..I agree with you. Unfortunately however...there are far
far too many Big Name manufactures out there who utilize minimal design
perameters when they make something (very expensive) and then charge out
the ass when it goes tits up.

Yeah, this dopey **** really knows about quality. NOT!

"Big Name manufacturers"? What easy sleazy Japanesey?

Cite, asswipe? US makers?

Don't jack off at the mouth without backing it up.

What are you pissed about? Single sided boards? What? How fucking
hard can it be to be one that touts hi,mself as a CNC tech if all the
gear is so "cheaply made".

Jeez, when are you going to go tit up?
 
S

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt

Jan 1, 1970
0
Trying to move the goal posts again, Dimbulb? The fact is that there
is no 220V service, so 245V is not 11% OV as you said it was.

It is 11.4% above the selected tap voltage though, you total fucking
retard.
Tell us, how hard is it to be always wrong, AlwaysWrong?

You are incorrect, KeithStain. You are such a stain on the group.
 
S

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt

Jan 1, 1970
0
it's most likely the feed to the building is 480/460 and a transformer
is being used.
I don't know to many electric companies that will supply 240 3 phase
any more.

I'd be willing to bet that the transformer came along with the move and
that being the case, yes, it can sag abit when other equipment get going
because I can't picture a huge xformer in use here.
More guess as you go bullshit.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, please do. ...for *every* jurisdiction in the US.

There goes the KeithStain retard again, thinking that he manipulates
people with his wee wittle bwain.

Face it, asswipe. You are wrong... again.
 
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