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Re: How does a TRIAC work

I

Ioannis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ï "Jayesh said:
Hi can anyone plz explain me how does a TRIAC work i know this is very
silly question but i need answer for this hope u wont mind such silly
question.
Thank you

The ones I've seen are regular transformers with multiple taps on the
secondary, for experimental reasons. You can get a 220V X 3Amp input for
example and it may have taps for 440V, 110V, 50V, 25V, 10V etc, on its
secondary, such that the Amperage on the secondary times the Voltage is
equal to 220 X 3.

The ones I've seen were used to fire up Carbon arcs in Physics labs.
 
D

David Lee

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ioannis wrote...
The ones I've seen are regular transformers with multiple taps on the
secondary, for experimental reasons. You can get a 220V X 3Amp input for
example and it may have taps for 440V, 110V, 50V, 25V, 10V etc, on its
secondary, such that the Amperage on the secondary times the Voltage is
equal to 220 X 3.

The ones I've seen were used to fire up Carbon arcs in Physics labs.

No. A Triac is a semiconductor device - stands for TRIode AC switch - and
is basically a bi-directional thyristor.

It is a device that is normally off but will break down and conduct if a
large enough voltage is applied in either direction and the breakdown
current will "latch-on" and continue to flow until it falls below a
threshold value, when it will turn off. This basic behaviour describes a
Diac (the two terminal DIode version), which has a fixed breakdown voltage -
a Triac has a third terminal (the gate) that allows the breakdown voltage to
be varied by variation of the gate current. It can be operated such that it
turns on simply when the supply AC voltage exceeds the breakdown voltage or,
more usually, forced on by an applied trigger current.

The device is commonly used as a lighting dimmer when the device is turned
on at varying points of each half cycle, under the control of the gate
current and then stays on until the supply voltage falls almost to zero.

Jayesh asked HOW does it work. The device is based on the Shockley Diode,
which is a four terminal PNPN device.
Effectively this behaves like two overlapped bipolar transistors - one PNP,
the other NPN - with the collector of each connected to the base of the
other:

P
N - N
P - P
N

The P end of the device is the anode and the N end the cathode.
Connected in this way, neither transistor could ever turn on. However if a
sufficiently large voltage is applied to the anode then the lower transistor
will start to conduct due to avalanche breakdown. This in turn will supply
a base current to the upper transistor, which will also turn on. Now each
transistor will hold the other one on and current will continue to flow even
when the voltage is reduced below the breakdown voltage. The current
continues to flow until it falls below a critical holding current whereupon
both transistors will turn off.

The Shockley diode can only conduct in one direction. The Diac is a more
complicated two-terminal five-layer NPNPN device where the top P-N and the
bottom N-P junctions are each shorted out by the contacts. This behaves
just like two back-to-back Shockley diodes, connected in parallel, and so it
can be turned on in both directions and so switch both positive and negative
half-cycles of an AC signal - basically latching on at some fixed point when
the voltage rises above the threshold voltage and staying on until the end
of the half-cycle.

Both the Shockley diode and the Diac have a fixed switching voltage. This
can be varied by the addition of another contact - the Gate. In the
Shockley diode this is achieved simply by applying current to the P-type
layer in the middle of the device (the collector of the PNP and base of the
NPN effective transistors). This contact can be used in one of two ways.
Either the gate current can be used to vary the breakdown voltage of the
device and thus contol where it turns on in the first quarter cycle of the
AC supply or - more commonly - to supply a trigger pulse that forces the
device to latch on at any desired part of the half cycle. Once latched on
then the device stays on until the output current falls to zero, just as in
the Shockley diode. This device is a Silicon-Controlled Rectifier (SCR),
which can only switch current in one direction.

The Triac is effectively a parallel-coupled pair of back-to-back SCRs, which
allows the current to be switched in both directions. In the case of the
Triac an extra layer of N-type semiconductor is required to be added to the
Diac stucture to create the gate contact. This leads to a more complicated
six-layer, three-contact structure that can be triggered in either direction
and control both half cycles of the AC supply, which is what is required for
lighting control.

I hope that this description is not too confusing and reasonably accurate.

Cheers

David
 
J

JB

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Lee said:
Ioannis wrote...
<snip>

What an *excellent* description. Detailed, accurate and very well explained.
(In one of my text books, this runs to about half a chapter!)

JB
 
I

Ioannis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ï "David Lee said:
Ioannis wrote...

No. A Triac is a semiconductor device - stands for TRIode AC switch - and
is basically a bi-directional thyristor.

[snip explanation]
I hope that this description is not too confusing and reasonably accurate.

There's apparently a misuse of names here. The ones that in my country are
sold as "Triacs" were regular transformers with multiple secondary taps. I
would suspect that what's termed "Triac" here is not the same as what's
termed "Triac" in the US, thus the quandary. Probably in my country the name
has been abused, so I will concede to your explanation, which sounds very
reasonable.
 
I

Ioannis

Jan 1, 1970
0
[snip]
There's apparently a misuse of names here. The ones that in my country are
sold as "Triacs" were regular transformers with multiple secondary taps. I
would suspect that what's termed "Triac" here is not the same as what's
termed "Triac" in the US, thus the quandary. Probably in my country the name
has been abused, so I will concede to your explanation, which sounds very
reasonable.

Hold it: Mea Culpa. I remembered the name of the device I was refering to:
Variac. (and NOT Triac).

My apologies. Memory failures :)
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ioannis said:
[snip]
There's apparently a misuse of names here. The ones that in my country
are
sold as "Triacs" were regular transformers with multiple secondary taps.
I
would suspect that what's termed "Triac" here is not the same as what's
termed "Triac" in the US, thus the quandary. Probably in my country the name
has been abused, so I will concede to your explanation, which sounds very
reasonable.

Hold it: Mea Culpa. I remembered the name of the device I was refering to:
Variac. (and NOT Triac).

My apologies. Memory failures :)

Are "Variacs" still around? I have fond memories of using them in
photometric laboratories to set the voltage of test lamps. As I recall
(also memory failure :)), they are variable autotransformers. There was a
way to hook two of them in a circuit so that one provided a coarse control
and the other a fine control.

Terry McGowan
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
[snip]
Are "Variacs" still around? I have fond memories of using them in
photometric laboratories to set the voltage of test lamps. As I recall
(also memory failure :)), they are variable autotransformers. There was a
way to hook two of them in a circuit so that one provided a coarse control
and the other a fine control.

Terry McGowan

Yes, they can still be purchased new, perhaps under other brand names,
- and there are also many used ones available.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
D

David Lee

Jan 1, 1970
0
JB wrote in message news:[email protected]...
How does a TRIAC work?
<snip>

What an *excellent* description. Detailed, accurate and very well
explained.
(In one of my text books, this runs to about half a chapter!)

Thank you very much - probably a good explanation because my memory was
somewhat hazy and I was having to explain it to myself at the same time!

David
 
R

R.Lewis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
[snip]
Are "Variacs" still around? I have fond memories of using them in
photometric laboratories to set the voltage of test lamps. As I recall
(also memory failure :)), they are variable autotransformers. There was a
way to hook two of them in a circuit so that one provided a coarse control
and the other a fine control.

Terry McGowan

Yes, they can still be purchased new, perhaps under other brand names,
- and there are also many used ones available.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

On every variac I have ever seen there appears to be a short circuit turn
(often more than one) at the contact of the 'wiper' to the winding since the
wiper contacts more than one turn at any one time.

Why is it not a short circuit turn?
 
C

Clive Mitchell

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.Lewis said:
On every variac I have ever seen there appears to be a short circuit
turn (often more than one) at the contact of the 'wiper' to the winding
since the wiper contacts more than one turn at any one time.

Why is it not a short circuit turn?

I've always wondered that myself. :)
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've always wondered that myself. :)

I suspect the resistance of the wiper is high enough to not effectively
short the couple of turns it is over, or maybe it is tolerable to short a
turn or two. I think more likely at least mostly the former.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
C

Clive Mitchell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Klipstein said:
I suspect the resistance of the wiper is high enough to not
effectively short the couple of turns it is over, or maybe it is
tolerable to short a turn or two. I think more likely at least mostly
the former.

Isn't it usually a carbon brush?
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Klipstein said:
I suspect the resistance of the wiper is high enough to not effectively
short the couple of turns it is over, or maybe it is tolerable to short a
turn or two. I think more likely at least mostly the former.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

Sounds like a shorting turn would increase the arcing, heat build-up and
current through the wiper contact though. Was (is) the wiper metal or a
carbon composition slug like a motor brush?

Terry McGowan
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sounds like a shorting turn would increase the arcing, heat build-up and
current through the wiper contact though. Was (is) the wiper metal or a
carbon composition slug like a motor brush?

Terry McGowan

I think the wiper is a carbon composition like a motor brush.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
[snip]
Are "Variacs" still around? I have fond memories of using them in
photometric laboratories to set the voltage of test lamps. As I recall
(also memory failure :)), they are variable autotransformers. There was a
way to hook two of them in a circuit so that one provided a coarse control
and the other a fine control.

Terry McGowan

Yes, they can still be purchased new, perhaps under other brand names,
- and there are also many used ones available.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

On every variac I have ever seen there appears to be a short circuit turn
(often more than one) at the contact of the 'wiper' to the winding since the
wiper contacts more than one turn at any one time.

Why is it not a short circuit turn?

Are you sure? I thought the wiper was rounded so it would usually rest
on only one turn, though I don't have one here to look at.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
C

Clive Mitchell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
Are you sure? I thought the wiper was rounded so it would usually rest
on only one turn, though I don't have one here to look at.

But it's also sprung, so isn't there the risk that it's going to sit in
between two turns? Even if it didn't, that means that the circuit would
be broken every time the wiper passed from one turn to the next.
 
R

R.Lewis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clive Mitchell said:
But it's also sprung, so isn't there the risk that it's going to sit in
between two turns? Even if it didn't, that means that the circuit would
be broken every time the wiper passed from one turn to the next.

I have just looked at three: 2 off 150VA, one off 250VA.
The (what very much looks like) carbon composition wipers *definitely*
contact a minimum of 3 turns on all these units.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have just looked at three: 2 off 150VA, one off 250VA.
The (what very much looks like) carbon composition wipers *definitely*
contact a minimum of 3 turns on all these units.

How many turns are there on the whole core? Or can you measure the
voltage per turn? Perhaps with and without the pad sitting the two
adjacent turns.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sounds like a shorting turn would increase the arcing, heat build-up and
current through the wiper contact though. Was (is) the wiper metal or a
carbon composition slug like a motor brush?

I have poked into a few "Variacs" and found the brush to be carbon or
carbon-like.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
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