Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Re: Freaky Amazing DMM?!

A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
So it's a vacuum tube front end instead - same thing, same result.
A fixed 11Mohm input, not 10M/volt as you foolishly claimed.

Dave.


!0 M Ohms will not load the circuit under discussion enough to clamp
local noise either.
 
B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
So, you don't use current transformers or clamp on AC ammeters?

It should be clear the discussion is about high available fault
current - the current you get when the source is short circuited. This
is a really basic concept in design and protection of high current AC
power circuits. (But it may not be something you have run across.)

High available fault current can result in arc flash. Arc flash can
result in major injury and death in addition to major equipment
destruction. Arc-flash is estimated to kill 200-300 people a year.
OSHA has made arc-flash an issue. Safety protection may require
wearing an arc-flash suit.

One of the smartest electricians I know was seriously injured by arc
flash. And it was through an equipment failure - he made no mistake.
If you are working in dangerous locations without the proper training
you are likely to die. If you are properly trained, the company
supplies the proper equipment needed to do the work.
<snip>

The issue I raised is appropriate meters. As I wrote above, the IEC
has measurement Categories I-IV. If working in high energy locations,
like panel boards and services, the appropriate meters are Cat III and
IV. These meters are designed for the riskier environment and have
better transient withstand and fusing.

My analog Triplett 310 has a glass fuse. I have a Beckman digital that
has a similar fuse. They might be safe in Cat I. My Fluke is rated Cat
III and IV. That includes transient withstand well above the nominal
voltage rating and high interrupt capacity fuses.

OSHA might be real displeased if the wrong meter was used. And when
OSHA is unhappy you might be unhappy.


If you didn’t assume everyone else was an idiot you might actually
learn something. (But probably not Archimedes.)
 
B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you are reading 83 volts, either it is a phantom voltage, or you
have a 40 volt drop in a 120 volt circuit, or 160 volt drop in a 240
volt circuit, which is damn unlikely. If you can't see this, you don't
know what you're doing.

Is it a phantom voltage?
Do you have an open neutral?
Voltage coming back through another device?
One of many other possibilities?

Arloe can eliminate one of them real fast because he knows what he is
doing.
The appropriate tools start with a well trained brain. Otherwise,
you are a monkey throwing crap at the problem.

How fortunate that Arloe and Stewart and I are well educated and know
what we are doing.
If is working with what you described, it certainly won't be 'low
impedance', because the the current flow required, times the voltage
being read would be so high that the meter would need to be in a 55
gallon drum of transformer oil, and able to dissipater several
kilowatts. All this would weigh several hundred pounds.

If you followed the thread you might understand how “low impedance” is
being used.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
It should be clear the discussion is about high available fault
current - the current you get when the source is short circuited.


Which is NOT a problem with ANY modern meter.

In other words, IDIOT... EVEN IF IT FLASHES IT WILL NOT CAUSE A HIGH
CURRENT INCIDENT.

Two simple premises, dopey ****.

ONE: The meter leads are SMALL gauge! Do you even know what that
means?

TWO: WHERE is the short circuit, IDIOT!?
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
High available fault current can result in arc flash. Arc flash can
result in major injury and death in addition to major equipment
destruction. Arc-flash is estimated to kill 200-300 people a year.
OSHA has made arc-flash an issue. Safety protection may require
wearing an arc-flash suit.


HIGH VOLTAGE arc flash kills 200 to 300 people a year.

Low voltage arc flash, not nearly as many in that statistic.

When you express statistics, you should be careful not to massage them
to make your position appear stronger. It will always bite you in the
ass.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
One of the smartest electricians I know was seriously injured by arc
flash. And it was through an equipment failure - he made no mistake.


The WHY are you pissing and moaning about meters?
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
I followed the thread, even though it loops in multiple, ridiculous
circles. Either you can work with available tools, or you need your
hand held, and your mommy to wipe both ends for you.

I do not agree with MT often, but he is correct here.

The low impedance only dopes are undereducated, and the folks that know
how to use their tools to ensure that proper data is recorded is in the
right.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have seen event logs with transients of over 3KV. That will blow that
homemade heathkit meter to hell.


No, it will NOT. It MIGHT arc INSIDE the meter, BUT can only last for
the duration of the transient, and NO meter is protected to that voltage,
you retarded twit! Sure the meter will be broken, but "blow that meter
to hell" is pretty much stupid misinformation.

Ya, you are bare assed alright. Shame one of those transients did
catch you in the ass, right where your brain is. Oh... that's right...
it appears that one did. That accounts for the stupidity.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
You do not know anything about working with mains power...stick with
your radio shack electronics kit.


I have worked with mains power, and I have made 400kV power supplies,
asswipe. I know more about HV than a punk fucking sparky retard like you
ever will.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Archimedes' Lever laid this down on his screen :

Tough guy huh....

you don't know shit.
I made supplies that were used on space shuttle experiments, shithead.
What have you done?

I did more in the last two years to make the world a better place than
your pathetic ass will accomplish in your entire pathetic, holier than
thou life, you fucking retard.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
BTW> I am laughing *at* you...

I love it when wankers like yourself loose control.
You think I give a fat flying **** what you are jacking off to?

**** off are low.
 
B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
Which is NOT a problem with ANY modern meter.

Then the idiots at the IEC and ANSI wasted a lot of time developing
standards for modern meters used on high capacity circuits. If they
had only consulted you....
In other words, IDIOT... EVEN IF IT FLASHES IT WILL NOT CAUSE A HIGH
CURRENT INCIDENT.

Safety experts disagree. Somehow I trust them.
Two simple premises,dopey ****.

It’s the patented Archimedes logic. Your namesake would be proud.
But why do you want your logical masterpieces erased after only a few
days???
ONE: The meter leads are SMALL gauge! Do you even know what that
means?

When they vaporize there will be less metal to condense on the
electrician.
TWO: WHERE is the short circuit, IDIOT!?

Transients, far above the nominal circuit voltage, can break down a
meter that is not designed to handle them. Transients are more likely
to be present on high capacity circuits. Result - internal arcing and
rapid circuit reconfiguration in multiple directions.

And although you never make mistakes, mere humans do. Cat rated
meters are protected in the case a mere human tries to meter on the
wrong range.

If you were familiar with modern safety practice you would know about
both.

Using a meter that is not Cat rated may only result in your wearing
the meter. Or, if you are less lucky, the failure can propagate back
to the switchgear.


Arc flash is a serious enough problem that it attracted OSHA. That is
arc flash at “low voltage” - below 600V. The defacto standard for
worker safety is NFPA 70E ( a cousin to the NEC which is NFPA 70). A
major piece of 70E is arc flash protection. Why does 70E require “low
voltage” electricians to wear arc flash suits in some environments?

You are out of touch with ‘current’ safety practices. What a surprise!
 
B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
Easy enough to identify.

Even easier for Arloe.
Sure you are. Yet you can't figure out how to do it without a dumbed
down tool.

It’s the favorite nobody-knows-anything-but-Michael argument.

Not the issue, of course. Any tool can be used. The question is what
is appropriate and efficient. High z meters do not help you on power
circuits, but you can use what you want. Arloe is entirely reasonable
to use a low z meter.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Archimedes' Lever formulated the question :

lol.
like I said, stick to your Radio Shack jr. electronics kit.
Let's just say that I am not even allowed to tell you what I work on,
an that there is one on every vehicle in service, including all planes
and ships. That pretty much makes you the pussy.

You, on the other hand likely have done nothing other than Radio Shack
educational projects. You need more.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
When they vaporize there will be less metal to condense on the
electrician.


Condense isn't even the right word, you utter fucking retard.

Spatter best fits, and has been in use for years, dumbfuck. It doesn't
condense. Yet another physical realm subject that you have no clue
about, or you would have chosen the proper word.

Eat a grenade. The world would be better off if you were spattered
onto the ground.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Transients, far above the nominal circuit voltage, can break down a
meter that is not designed to handle them. Transients are more likely
to be present on high capacity circuits. Result - internal arcing and
rapid circuit reconfiguration in multiple directions.


"rapid circuit reconfiguration"? Is there anything that you do not make
up some lame phrase to describe it? A meter which experiences an arc
internally where it should not be will most certainly fail. That's not a
'reconfiguration' you retarded ****, that is termed as a 'failure mode'
or a 'catastrophic failure'. I wouldn't expect a twit like you to know
what the word mode means, however. Either way, your description isn't
one.

You are a VAPID circuit reconfiguration.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
And although you never make mistakes,

I made on, thinking that you have half a brain.
mere humans do.

How would you know, since you do not qualify?
Cat rated
meters are protected in the case a mere human tries to meter on the
wrong range.

Modern meters auto-range, you retarded, Chinese cheap shit fuckhead.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you were familiar with modern safety practice you would know about
both.


I have used meters on 50kV before, floating.

A test circumstance a pussy like you doesn't even have the balls to
try, much less LEARN how to perform. I know EXACTLY how to meter ANY
source, fucktard.

You are so stupid, you likely do not even know what Fluorinert is.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Using a meter that is not Cat rated may only result in your wearing
the meter.

Or, in the case of experienced users, WILL only result in a proper and
safely obtained reading being taken.
Or, if you are less lucky, the failure can propagate back
to the switchgear.

You're an idiot... A complete retard. I have seen high capacity lines
dancing on the street before. *Those* current spikes made it to the
switch gear. A failed DMM would not even make a single event that
matched any one of those arcs dancing on the roadway, and very likely
would appear as a mere glitch on the switch gear, at best.

You act like someone is throwing a 2 inch diameter Copper bar across
the taps. Sorry but the are no meters made that react like a 2 inch
Copper bar when they short an AC source. Perhaps you should re-examine
your claims.
 
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