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Raymarine self compatibility

D

Daniel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Five years ago I bought a radar Raymarine SL72 (Pathfinder Plus). Last
year, as I wanted to have an integrated system, I bought a C120 display
sure that the SL72 scanner would fit the display. Wrong! After several
attempts and inquiries I discovered that my scanner was built 6 (six)
months before Raymarine started making units compatible with the C
series displays (June 2002 vs Dec 2002).
Do you think that this is fair? Does anybody know whether Raymarine
helps to solve unfortunate cases like mine?
I'd like to add something more: before buying the C120 I checked some
Raymarine docs and found that the new display would have been compatible
with all scanner with a P.N. newer than a certain number. My scanner
had indeed a P.N. GREATER than that and this is why I decided the buy,
but... BUT I later realized that Raymarine is one of the few company in
the world (as far as I know) that DOES NOT use an incremental P.N. but a
quite odd system. Greater P.N. does not mean newer!

Advice is kindly requested and welcome

Daniel
 
J

Jack Erbes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel said:
Five years ago I bought a radar Raymarine SL72 (Pathfinder Plus). Last
year, as I wanted to have an integrated system, I bought a C120 display
sure that the SL72 scanner would fit the display. Wrong! After several
attempts and inquiries I discovered that my scanner was built 6 (six)
months before Raymarine started making units compatible with the C
series displays (June 2002 vs Dec 2002).
Do you think that this is fair? Does anybody know whether Raymarine
helps to solve unfortunate cases like mine?
I'd like to add something more: before buying the C120 I checked some
Raymarine docs and found that the new display would have been compatible
with all scanner with a P.N. newer than a certain number. My scanner
had indeed a P.N. GREATER than that and this is why I decided the buy,
but... BUT I later realized that Raymarine is one of the few company in
the world (as far as I know) that DOES NOT use an incremental P.N. but a
quite odd system. Greater P.N. does not mean newer!

Advice is kindly requested and welcome

I talked to the Raymarine service folks at U.S. toll free number on this
page http://tinyurl.com/cuyhk and they say that the scanner would have
to be sent in to a Raymarine service center to make it C120 compatible.
The work needed is to install a new IF board in the scanner and
upgrade the software. The full scanner is needed because the work
requires a level of calibration and testing that is only done at service
centers.

You should be able to get that done by the service center in England if
there is not one nearer to you than that.

If you want to exchange emails with the U.S. service center about
getting the work there, send me a personal email at jacker at midmaine
dot com and I can give you an email address for a technician at the
Raymarine service center in New Hampshire. He can give you a cost
estimate for having the repairs done here in the U.S.

I did not attempt to discuss the "fairness" of your situation with him,
although you do have my sympathy on the problem here. If you purchased
the C120 through a Raymarine dealer and with assurances of
compatibility, I would have expected your dealer to have worked the
problem for you.

Jack
 
D

Daniel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jack said:
I talked to the Raymarine service folks at U.S. toll free number on this
page http://tinyurl.com/cuyhk and they say that the scanner would have
to be sent in to a Raymarine service center to make it C120 compatible.
The work needed is to install a new IF board in the scanner and upgrade
the software. The full scanner is needed because the work requires a
level of calibration and testing that is only done at service centers.

You should be able to get that done by the service center in England if
there is not one nearer to you than that.

If you want to exchange emails with the U.S. service center about
getting the work there, send me a personal email at jacker at midmaine
dot com and I can give you an email address for a technician at the
Raymarine service center in New Hampshire. He can give you a cost
estimate for having the repairs done here in the U.S.

I did not attempt to discuss the "fairness" of your situation with him,
although you do have my sympathy on the problem here. If you purchased
the C120 through a Raymarine dealer and with assurances of
compatibility, I would have expected your dealer to have worked the
problem for you.

Jack

Thank you Jack! This is the first good news I receive: all the Raymarine
dealers I contacted up to now told me that buying a new scanner was the
only possibility.
I bought all Raymarine products through official dealers/retailers but,
in my presumption of understanding what I had read on the manuals - I
admit - I never asked for assurances of compatibility.
After what you say, I will get in touch with the headquarters of
Raymarine here in Italy (or in England) and see if we can arrange a
retrofit for a price lower than that of a new unit.
The cost estimate for the repairs in the U.S. could be a useful
comparison but sending the system there would not be very convenient I
guess :)

Thank you again, I appreciate your help

Daniel
 
J

Jack Erbes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel wrote:

Thank you Jack! This is the first good news I receive: all the Raymarine
dealers I contacted up to now told me that buying a new scanner was the
only possibility. <snip>

You're more than welcome. And good luck with getting it all working!

Jack
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel, if your scanner has a round dome, take the dome off and inspect
it. We're on our 3rd...or is it 4th, I forget....

The water vapor the stupid dome breathes in when the sun goes down makes
it rain inside the dome by morning, a cycle that keeps repeating, filling
the dome with condensate that doesn't drain. The inside parts of the 2KW
dome are made of some cheap zinc potmetal that turns to powder and has
electrolysis with the other, more noble metals like the rusty magnetron
and waveguide parts. The white powder is all over the INSIDE of the
receiver/transmitter compartments in the unsealed zinc box, so its all
over the boards and the unit eventually dies, consuming itself.

I've looked at several other Raymarine radomes on other boats all
wondering why range keeps getting shorter. Same thing on all boats.
Poorly designed, cheap parts that don't belong at sea.

You probably are way overdue for a new crappy Raymarine scanner,
anyway...sorry.
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
all the Raymarine
dealers I contacted up to now told me that buying a new scanner was the
only possibility.

What you really need is a new FURUNO scanner and display. Commercial boats
don't run Furuno because they like the color...(c;
 
J

John Proctor

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel, if your scanner has a round dome, take the dome off and inspect
it. We're on our 3rd...or is it 4th, I forget....

The water vapor the stupid dome breathes in when the sun goes down
makes it rain inside the dome by morning, a cycle that keeps repeating,
filling the dome with condensate that doesn't drain. The inside parts
of the 2KW dome are made of some cheap zinc potmetal that turns to
powder and has electrolysis with the other, more noble metals like the
rusty magnetron and waveguide parts. The white powder is all over the
INSIDE of the receiver/transmitter compartments in the unsealed zinc
box, so its all over the boards and the unit eventually dies, consuming
itself.

I've looked at several other Raymarine radomes on other boats all
wondering why range keeps getting shorter. Same thing on all boats.
Poorly designed, cheap parts that don't belong at sea.

You probably are way overdue for a new crappy Raymarine scanner,
anyway...sorry.

Here we go again, Larry's favourite hobby horse!

On the issue of your scanner compatibility:

1. The C User's manual has information regarding serial numbers which
are compatible, non-compatible or need upodates.
2. The C user's manual is available online from the Raymarine web site.
3. What ever happened to caveat emptor?

If you verified compatibility with a Raymarine dealer and he said it
was ok then you have a grievance with that dealer. Otherwise I'm sorry
but the information was available for making a correct decision. You
must therefore accept responsibility for your dilemma.

If we want compatibility for everything that has been manufactured in
the past boy we will not progress too fast. BTW Furuno has the same
probnlem with older scanners not working with their new NavNet
dispalays as well so Raymarine is not alone.

From someone who sells and installs this stuff.
 
J

Jack Erbes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Larry said:
Daniel, if your scanner has a round dome, take the dome off and inspect
it. We're on our 3rd...or is it 4th, I forget....

The water vapor the stupid dome breathes in...<snip>

This is about the 94th time we have heard Larry's rant about Raymarine
radar scanners on this newsgroup. I have this boilerplate post in my
draft folders simply to bring some sense of objectivity to this every
time it comes up again.

Somehow, when I replied to Daniel's question, I had a hunch it would
come to this. So here's my side of the story:

In defense of Raymarine equipment, I have looked at and bought and sold
a large number of Raymarine radars that had been installed for anywhere
from 2-3 to up to 6 or 8 years. And I have yet to see a single one that
had anything more that light surface oxidation/minor salt air corrosion
on the aluminum plates and covers and some minor surface rust on the
magnetron core. Without a single exception, the PCB's and the rotating
antenna (much like a PCB) showed *NO* evidence of corrosion.

Let me guess, you installed all three of your "destroyed" systems
yourself...

If those were corroded as you described, I'm almost willing to bet that
it was because you sealed the vents and/or somehow managed to lead water
into your radar housings with an improper cable run and poorly sealed
cable entry.

Jack
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here we go again, Larry's favourite hobby horse!

What's your interest, John? Are you a Raymarine dealer? Why are you
protecting an obvious crap product? I didn't make it rain in the dome and
rot the pot metal....
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is about the 94th time we have heard Larry's rant about Raymarine
radar scanners on this newsgroup. I have this boilerplate post in my
draft folders simply to bring some sense of objectivity to this every
time it comes up again.

So, why do you read it? Are you a dealer, too?....

If I asked a question about my Freddy Widget and someone else on the
newsgroup had one that knew it was a POS, I'd certainly want them to tell
me their experience with it. Just because YOU heard it before, he may not
have been here.

Of course, if you're CONNECTED to the Raymarine line, you'd want to shut up
any dissenting observations that my trash sales, eh?

Why are you two defending a defective product?
 
J

Jack Erbes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Larry said:
So, why do you read it? Are you a dealer, too?....

No Larry, I'm just an honest and objective person trying to add some
balance to your nitterings.
If I asked a question about my Freddy Widget and someone else on the
newsgroup had one that knew it was a POS, I'd certainly want them to tell
me their experience with it. Just because YOU heard it before, he may not
have been here.

And if you read that is was a POS, and were sure it was not a POS, you
would say something to give the conversation some balance wouldn't you?
Of course, if you're CONNECTED to the Raymarine line, you'd want to shut up
any dissenting observations that my trash sales, eh?

Nope, not me. If I thought the product was bad, I'd say that. If I
thought it was okay or good I'd say that too. In fact I just did.
Why are you two defending a defective product?

I'm not defending anything, the condition those are routinely found in
speaks for inaccuracy of your allegations.

Come on up here, I can show you 150-200 yachts in winter storage, at
least half of which will have Raymarine scanners on them. Bring a
pocket full of $100 bills with you and we'll start popping covers off of
scanners (the sail boats with the masts off will be the easy ones to
start with). I'll give you a $100 bill for everyone we find in the
condition you describe and you'll give me $100 for everyone that is not
in that condition. And you'll go home broke.

You really bring a lot of discredit to yourself with your irrational
nitterings about those scanners. It is simply not true.

Jack
 
J

John Proctor

Jan 1, 1970
0
What's your interest, John? Are you a Raymarine dealer? Why are you
protecting an obvious crap product? I didn't make it rain in the dome
and rot the pot metal....

Larry,

I sell and install raymarine and FURUNO and I have to say the quality
of both are comparable. I too have many old Raymarine radars installed
and they generally are in no worse condition than the quivalent FURUNO
scanners I see. It all comes down to the competance of the installer,
enough said!
 
L

Lynn Coffelt

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Proctor said:
Larry,

I sell and install raymarine and FURUNO and I have to say the quality
of both are comparable. I too have many old Raymarine radars installed
and they generally are in no worse condition than the quivalent FURUNO
scanners I see. It all comes down to the competance of the installer,
enough said!
After 20+ years selling and installing at least 7 brands of radars that
I can think of, (and servicing several other brands), I itch to jump in
here, but my skin is too thin to be flamed by those who just enjoy the
scuffle!
Old Chief Lynn
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
It all comes down to the competance of the installer,
enough said!

Hdmm....lessee....
Mount radome with 4 bolts to radar mount where last one that failed came
off, grease bolts to prevent seizing then sealing bolt holes as best you
can to keep stainless bolts from eating away pot metal threaded holes from
salt air electrolysis...
Install rubber tit drain in plastic box....
Feed cheap plastic molex plug through cheap plastic stuffing tube and
tighten on plastic cable...
Plug cheap plastic molex plug into pins sticking out of exposed PC board
through open slot in pot metal chassis box....
Put flimsy plastic top in little groove with little rubber seal and tighten
only 4 bolts holding it all on that don't seal well.

What did I miss you professional plug swappers wouldn't? Installing this
radome is simpler than putting a stereo in the boat....only one cable....
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
After 20+ years selling and installing at least 7 brands of
radars that
I can think of, (and servicing several other brands), I itch to jump
in here, but my skin is too thin to be flamed by those who just enjoy
the scuffle!
Old Chief Lynn

Come on in, Chief! I forgot to put:

"open cheap plastic power connectors so you can stuff the DC wires into the
holes and clamp 'em shut to make contact with the wires", in my last post.

Silly me. I think for $2000 the goddamned thing oughta have a proper
SEALED military-style marine connector, not a little plastic molex plug
plugged into the PC board like a cheap keyboard from Radio Shack inside the
dome where it's raining...(c;

Let 'er RIP! Marine electronics is all crap. Plugless crap.
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
You really bring a lot of discredit to yourself with your irrational
nitterings about those scanners. It is simply not true.

Jack


tell ya what I'll do, Jack. Next time I have to replace the damned
thing, I'm going to haul it all apart before sending it back to England
and post the pictures of this shit scanner for ya. Our boat sits in the
water ALL YEAR, not on some davit in the parking lot.

The design of this POS sucks. Rusty magnetron, poorly sealed dome that
has to breathe in and out sea air every day through that little drain tit
in the bottom. Everything in the dome open with slots so the cheap plug
pins soldered into the motherboard the molex plug mates with like a cheap
stereo can get all wet inside. Want me to send it to ya?

They don't survive in tropical marine climates....

Funny, though. At the base of the mizzen this POS is mounted on is a
little plastic Icom AT-130 antenna tuner that's SEALED from breathing sea
air in and out. It has lots of screws to tighten its cheap plastic case
on the big, flat rubber seal that doesn't breathe in and out every time
the sun rises on it. Matter of fact, it's bolted to the top of the aft
cabin at the base of the mizzen where it gets regularly sprayed with
seawater! Open it up and you'll find it just as clean and uncorroded as
the day I, an incompetent installer who's been putting in military gear
and civilian crap since 1966, installed it wrongly.

Isn't it funny now Icom can make a SEALED ANTENNA TUNER that doesn't
corrode up inside for a couple hundred bucks, but Raymarine can't for
$2000? Why is that?
 
L

Lynn Coffelt

Jan 1, 1970
0
I sell and install raymarine and FURUNO and I have to say the quality
After 20+ years selling and installing at least 7 brands of radars that
I can think of, (and servicing several other brands), I itch to jump in
here, but my skin is too thin to be flamed by those who just enjoy the
scuffle!
Old Chief Lynn
After tooting my own whistle (above) I had to try to come up with the 7
brands of radars I sold. I found the names of 13 brands I sold, installed
and serviced, along with 17 additional brands that I serviced that I did not
sell.
I'm quite sure this is of great interest to the group.
Now, who is Raymarine? We sold and serviced Raytheon for many years,
and JRC for a while. Is Raymarine related to those older names?
Old Chief Lynn (still tooting horn)
 
J

Jack Erbes

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lynn Coffelt wrote:
After tooting my own whistle (above) I had to try to come up with the 7
brands of radars I sold. I found the names of 13 brands I sold, installed
and serviced, along with 17 additional brands that I serviced that I did not
sell.
I'm quite sure this is of great interest to the group.
Now, who is Raymarine? We sold and serviced Raytheon for many years,
and JRC for a while. Is Raymarine related to those older names?
Old Chief Lynn (still tooting horn)

It is the heirs of the Raytheon legacy. A lot of their stuff was and
some still is made in England but it is now some sort of transnational
corporation with morphing of brand names and stuff.

You, like me, probably remember when Japanese made stuff was crap. And
then you also probably remember when it finally became the "good stuff".

Through all there there were some American and European brands that were
the benchmarks for quality. All the names that represented the
benchmarks are still around, some have been morphed a little (Raytheon
to Raymarine for example).

Some of the brands like Furuno and JRC (Japanese Radio Company) are now
"outsourcing" manufacture to places like China, Korea, Singapore, and
Taiwan.

You call yourself "Old Chief Lynn". What kind of Chief was that? A
Navy Chief? Or something truly noble like a Native American?

Cheers,

Jack
 
D

Daniel

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
On the issue of your scanner compatibility:

1. The C User's manual has information regarding serial numbers which
are compatible, non-compatible or need upodates.
2. The C user's manual is available online from the Raymarine web site.
3. What ever happened to caveat emptor?

If you verified compatibility with a Raymarine dealer and he said it was
ok then you have a grievance with that dealer. Otherwise I'm sorry but
the information was available for making a correct decision. You must
therefore accept responsibility for your dilemma.

If we want compatibility for everything that has been manufactured in
the past boy we will not progress too fast. BTW Furuno has the same
probnlem with older scanners not working with their new NavNet dispalays
as well so Raymarine is not alone.

From someone who sells and installs this stuff.

Wow... I did not mean to start such a big flame and fuss...
To Larry: in Italy we used to say that if you got a Fiat assembled on
Monday you were in trouble. When was your last Raymarine radome built?
Mine was built on a Friday: it works well but is not compatible with
something that was built the next Monday :)

To John: I already wrote that I accept responsibility for my dilemma.
Namely at first sight I misunderstood the odd way of "part numbering"
assumed by Raymarine and when I understood it, it was too late. Still I
think that this "non-compatibility" issue comes out too often and should
be dealt more fairly by the manufacturers... IMHO

Daniel
 
L

Lynn Coffelt

Jan 1, 1970
0
Now, who is Raymarine? We sold and serviced Raytheon for many
years,
It is the heirs of the Raytheon legacy. A lot of their stuff was and
some still is made in England but it is now some sort of transnational
corporation with morphing of brand names and stuff.

You, like me, probably remember when Japanese made stuff was crap. And
then you also probably remember when it finally became the "good stuff".

Through all there there were some American and European brands that were
the benchmarks for quality. All the names that represented the
benchmarks are still around, some have been morphed a little (Raytheon
to Raymarine for example).

Some of the brands like Furuno and JRC (Japanese Radio Company) are now
"outsourcing" manufacture to places like China, Korea, Singapore, and
Taiwan.

You call yourself "Old Chief Lynn". What kind of Chief was that? A
Navy Chief? Or something truly noble like a Native American?

Cheers,

Jack

And then there were some that seem to have lost their way. (in the
marine radar business) Wesmar radar, Benmar, RCA, Epsco/Seascan, Goldstar,
Seatron, Sperry, Motorola, Kelvin Hughes, Whistler, Selena, Apelco, Oki,
Ridge, Ray Jefferson, Seafarer and??????
One of Old Chief Lynn's careers was U.S. Air Force
Old Chief Lynn
 
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