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Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Crash Gordon, Aug 21, 2006.

  1. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    One word; Sheesh!
     
  2. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let us
    wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine I'll
    buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What am I
    getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company. He
    does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
    somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system Ranger
    Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What do
    you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have a
    rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client doesn't
    know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down), how
    many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.

    But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, extra
    motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
    it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!

    What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not what
    the client needs or wants.

    Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.

    Portion of client's email to me:

    a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
    handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
    b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor
    can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them to
    prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom.
    This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
    break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or
    any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between the
    home-owner and the security company.


    | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them about
    | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own personal
    | vehicles.
    |
    | Jim Rojas
    |
    |
    | | > One word; Sheesh!
    | >
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  3. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Jim,
    Thanks for the insight.

    R.


    | All you have to do is check with a few neighbors that took the option.
    |
    | 1. They use the DSC PC1555 exclusively.
    | 2. They only install 1 keypad most times.
    | 3. They only install 1 inside siren, which is looped to an optional
    outside
    | siren in the garage attic area.
    | 4. They do prewire for a motion & smoke, but usually run the wiring to the
    | attic hatch nearest the panel.
    | 5. The ran a Cat 5 cable to the dmarc or to the home networking box.
    | 6. They don't do custom installations. Their technicians would then be
    | required to think...which is not allowed.
    |
    | They run the company like a giant boiler room manned by robots.
    |
    | Let them install their junk. Then afterwards call a real alarm company
    that
    | will listen to your needs.
    |
    | Jim Rojas
    |
    |
    | | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
    us
    | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
    I'll
    | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
    am
    | > I
    | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
    He
    | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
    | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
    | > Ranger
    | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
    do
    | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
    a
    | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
    doesn't
    | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
    how
    | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | >
    | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
    | > extra
    | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
    | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
    | >
    | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
    | > what
    | > the client needs or wants.
    | >
    | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | >
    | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | >
    | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
    | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
    | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
    nor
    | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
    | > to
    | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
    bedroom.
    | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
    | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
    or
    | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
    | > the
    | > home-owner and the security company.
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
    | > about
    | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
    personal
    | > | vehicles.
    | > |
    | > | Jim Rojas
    | > |
    | > |
    | > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  4. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Crash Gordon said:
    Your customer needs to tell his contractor to go **** himself. Your
    contract is with the homeowner, not the contractor. The homeowner is
    paying for the house, and the contractor has nothing to say about
    additional work the homeowner contracts for.

    Obviously, the contractor has a deal with the other alarm company to do
    prewires, but that is not your problem, nor is it your customer's problem,
    since he didn't agree to it. Don't take any crap from the contractor, it's
    not his decision to make.

    - badenov
     
  5. thesatguy

    thesatguy Guest

    In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always goes
    in the master bdrm closet.

    They always wire every opening,
    There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
    They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every room
    and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.

    Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm ceiling.

    They wire all the telephone jacks.
    They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
    default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.

    Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.

    They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a 'package'
    type upgrade.

    The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
    Upgrade can include:
    The telco wiring & jacks.
    The catv wiring & jacks.
    The cat5 wiring & jacks.
    Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
    jacks.
    The additional ceiling speakers.
    I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there is
    a lot of large glass openings.
    Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
    option.

    I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit in
    my area.

    They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
    purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring options.

    In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each home
    and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client
    while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
    customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
    though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real
    pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
     
  6. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Here's the latest from my client:


    ""Good Evening Rob, and thanks for the info.

    In the days since we last corresponded, I've spent a fair amount of effort
    trying flesh this thing out for myself, too. Your friend has given you
    pretty good info (meaning Jim Rojas), and the whole situation stinks.

    Firstly, you're right about Ranger American, they are an amateurish,
    "cookie-cutter" operation lacking sophistication or even basic business
    practices. I won't bore you with a litany of my frustrating contacts with
    them up to this point.

    I spent an hour or so up at the development yesterday walking through an
    identical house now just finishing the framing/wiring phase. It appears
    that the downstairs windows and doors all are pre-wired with standard
    magnetic switches, and the upstairs window over the patio roof is pre-wired
    as well. None of the others upstairs are addressed. Pre-wiring for a
    motion sensor in the family room (the cone covering the area from the back
    sliding door up toward the front door area). One keypad in the utility
    room.

    And one spare wire above the attic access hatch, which is coiled and stapled
    to an inside rafter above.

    No attention to garage, etc.

    It appears that Builder Name is immovable on the pre-wiring, which is
    strange in that the sound system subcontractor is allowed to sell and
    pre-wire whatever they want. So... we'll make a serious run at the
    construction superintendent late this week or early next. If he agrees,
    I'll pay Ranger American to run whatever additional wires that you advise.

    But my hopes aren't high, Rob, because Ranger American really is a company
    of losers who give your industry a bad name. If there is flexibility in the
    situation, I'm quite willing to allow them to think that they'll get my
    business, and pay them for the extra wiring. But you are our security man.
    Period.

    So, I'll need you to simply give us good advice, and reliable equipment. We
    know that we'll need a new panel and two (maybe three) keypads. We know
    we'll want a discreet motion sensor downstairs and up, and glass break
    sensors. Obviously we want to integrate smoke, and hopefully CO. And some
    sort of garage solution. We may have to simply and reluctantly accept the
    wireless approach for some components.

    When it's all said and done, we may drink a bottle of wine and throw a PC
    1555 into the canal. We'll spend the money to get a system that affords us
    the reliability we always had in the last house (actually this will be the
    third house we've done for him in the past 15 years).

    So, I'm hopeful that some late afternoon soon we can meet and take a look at
    the apartment here, and also run up to the Meritage development. As always,
    I'm most appreciative of your time and assistance. If need be, I'll pay for
    your time to take a peek at the new house (or one like it).

    John D ""




    | All you have to do is check with a few neighbors that took the option.
    |
    | 1. They use the DSC PC1555 exclusively.
    | 2. They only install 1 keypad most times.
    | 3. They only install 1 inside siren, which is looped to an optional
    outside
    | siren in the garage attic area.
    | 4. They do prewire for a motion & smoke, but usually run the wiring to the
    | attic hatch nearest the panel.
    | 5. The ran a Cat 5 cable to the dmarc or to the home networking box.
    | 6. They don't do custom installations. Their technicians would then be
    | required to think...which is not allowed.
    |
    | They run the company like a giant boiler room manned by robots.
    |
    | Let them install their junk. Then afterwards call a real alarm company
    that
    | will listen to your needs.
    |
    | Jim Rojas
    |
    |
    | | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
    us
    | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
    I'll
    | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
    am
    | > I
    | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
    He
    | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
    | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
    | > Ranger
    | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
    do
    | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
    a
    | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
    doesn't
    | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
    how
    | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | >
    | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
    | > extra
    | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
    | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
    | >
    | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
    | > what
    | > the client needs or wants.
    | >
    | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | >
    | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | >
    | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
    | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
    | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
    nor
    | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
    | > to
    | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
    bedroom.
    | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
    | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
    or
    | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
    | > the
    | > home-owner and the security company.
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
    | > about
    | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
    personal
    | > | vehicles.
    | > |
    | > | Jim Rojas
    | > |
    | > |
    | > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  7. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    It doesn't quite work that way, unfortunately. The house is not owned by my
    client until he closes on the house. The contractor (tract builder) has an
    exclusive contract with Ranger American. I've been on both sides of the
    issue, having had exclusives with builders myself so I can understand both
    sides of the issue. The difference is that we would always accomodate the
    buyer, if the buyer wanted to buy extra wiring so the could add more devices
    and they were willing to pay us I had no problem with that. My theory was
    that I always had a shot at getting their business away from whomever they
    might be going with by addressing their needs...sometimes it panned out,
    sometimes not, but in any event I wasn't running the extra wiring for free
    sooo no skin off my nose.




    | Crash Gordon said:
    |
    | >An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
    us
    | >wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only.
    |
    | Your customer needs to tell his contractor to go **** himself. Your
    | contract is with the homeowner, not the contractor. The homeowner is
    | paying for the house, and the contractor has nothing to say about
    | additional work the homeowner contracts for.
    |
    | Obviously, the contractor has a deal with the other alarm company to do
    | prewires, but that is not your problem, nor is it your customer's problem,
    | since he didn't agree to it. Don't take any crap from the contractor,
    it's
    | not his decision to make.
    |
    | - badenov
    |
     
  8. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Thanks!
    Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't wanna
    post that just be general.

    Thanks,
    Rob

    | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always goes
    | in the master bdrm closet.
    |
    | They always wire every opening,
    | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
    | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every room
    | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
    |
    | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm
    ceiling.
    |
    | They wire all the telephone jacks.
    | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
    | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
    |
    | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.
    |
    | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
    'package'
    | type upgrade.
    |
    | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
    | Upgrade can include:
    | The telco wiring & jacks.
    | The catv wiring & jacks.
    | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
    | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
    | jacks.
    | The additional ceiling speakers.
    | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there
    is
    | a lot of large glass openings.
    | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
    | option.
    |
    | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit in
    | my area.
    |
    | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
    | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
    options.
    |
    | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each home
    | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client
    | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
    | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
    | though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real
    | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
    |
    | | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
    us
    | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
    I'll
    | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
    am
    | > I
    | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
    He
    | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
    | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
    | > Ranger
    | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
    do
    | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
    a
    | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
    doesn't
    | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
    how
    | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | >
    | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
    | > extra
    | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
    | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
    | >
    | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
    | > what
    | > the client needs or wants.
    | >
    | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | >
    | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | >
    | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
    | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
    | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
    nor
    | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
    | > to
    | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
    bedroom.
    | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
    | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
    or
    | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
    | > the
    | > home-owner and the security company.
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
    | > about
    | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
    personal
    | > | vehicles.
    | > |
    | > | Jim Rojas
    | > |
    | > |
    | > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  9. thesatguy

    thesatguy Guest

    houston
     
  10. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow & go...and big
    clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor for
    windows that the do do.



    | houston
    | | > Thanks!
    | > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't
    | > wanna
    | > post that just be general.
    | >
    | > Thanks,
    | > Rob
    | >
    | > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always
    | > goes
    | > | in the master bdrm closet.
    | > |
    | > | They always wire every opening,
    | > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
    | > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every
    | > room
    | > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
    | > |
    | > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm
    | > ceiling.
    | > |
    | > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
    | > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
    | > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
    | > |
    | > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.
    | > |
    | > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
    | > 'package'
    | > | type upgrade.
    | > |
    | > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
    | > | Upgrade can include:
    | > | The telco wiring & jacks.
    | > | The catv wiring & jacks.
    | > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
    | > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
    | > | jacks.
    | > | The additional ceiling speakers.
    | > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if
    there
    | > is
    | > | a lot of large glass openings.
    | > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
    | > | option.
    | > |
    | > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to
    visit
    | > in
    | > | my area.
    | > |
    | > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
    | > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
    | > options.
    | > |
    | > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each
    | > home
    | > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each
    client
    | > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
    | > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
    | > | though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are
    real
    | > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
    | > |
    | > | | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't
    | > let
    | > us
    | > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
    | > I'll
    | > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in.
    | > What
    | > am
    | > | > I
    | > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    | > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm
    company.
    | > He
    | > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
    | > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security
    system
    | > | > Ranger
    | > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable.
    | > What
    | > do
    | > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll
    | > have
    | > a
    | > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
    | > doesn't
    | > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and
    down),
    | > how
    | > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | > | >
    | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
    detector,
    | > | > extra
    | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
    | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
    | > | >
    | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only,
    not
    | > | > what
    | > | > the client needs or wants.
    | > | >
    | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | > | >
    | > | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | > | >
    | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
    | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
    | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they
    use,
    | > nor
    | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow
    | > them
    | > | > to
    | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
    | > bedroom.
    | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors,
    | > glass
    | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage
    sensors,
    | > or
    | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options
    | > between
    | > | > the
    | > | > home-owner and the security company.
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay
    them
    | > | > about
    | > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
    | > personal
    | > | > | vehicles.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | Jim Rojas
    | > | > |
    | > | > |
    | > | > | | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | >
    | > | > |
    | > | > |
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  11. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    A problem with companies that have to use "approved" parts/devices...the
    contacts they used are so big they don't fit the reveals on the windows, so
    they end up sticking the magnets to the glass. Looks lovely on a 900,000 $
    house (or any house for that matter).




    | Yes, they like using that 22/2 zip wire. I tried talking them into using
    | 22/4 for all new prewires, but of course my suggestion fell on deaf ears.
    | Something to do with saving money... :)
    |
    | Jim Rojas
    |
    |
    |
    | | > phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow & go...and
    big
    | > clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor for
    | > windows that the do do.
    | >
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | houston
    | > | | > | > Thanks!
    | > | > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you
    don't
    | > | > wanna
    | > | > post that just be general.
    | > | >
    | > | > Thanks,
    | > | > Rob
    | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it
    | > always
    | > | > goes
    | > | > | in the master bdrm closet.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | They always wire every opening,
    | > | > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
    | > | > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most
    | > every
    | > | > room
    | > | > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living
    rm
    | > | > ceiling.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
    | > | > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change
    | > the
    | > | > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by
    area.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
    | > | > 'package'
    | > | > | type upgrade.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
    | > | > | Upgrade can include:
    | > | > | The telco wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | The catv wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv
    wiring
    | > &
    | > | > | jacks.
    | > | > | The additional ceiling speakers.
    | > | > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if
    | > there
    | > | > is
    | > | > | a lot of large glass openings.
    | > | > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as
    | > an
    | > | > | option.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to
    | > visit
    | > | > in
    | > | > | my area.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody
    has
    | > | > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
    | > | > options.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for
    each
    | > | > home
    | > | > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each
    | > client
    | > | > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they
    call
    | > | > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff
    | > even
    | > | > | though customers tell them they don't want their service. They
    are
    | > real
    | > | > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
    | > | > |
    | > | > | | > | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder
    | > won't
    | > | > let
    | > | > us
    | > | > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said
    | > fine
    | > | > I'll
    | > | > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move
    in.
    | > | > What
    | > | > am
    | > | > | > I
    | > | > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
    | > | > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm
    | > company.
    | > | > He
    | > | > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in
    Florida
    | > or
    | > | > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security
    | > system
    | > | > | > Ranger
    | > | > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full
    upgradable.
    | > | > What
    | > | > do
    | > | > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home?
    We'll
    | > | > have
    | > | > a
    | > | > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My
    client
    | > | > doesn't
    | > | > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and
    | > down),
    | > | > how
    | > | > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
    | > detector,
    | > | > | > extra
    | > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would
    do
    | > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money
    only,
    | > not
    | > | > | > what
    | > | > | > the client needs or wants.
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully
    capable
    | > of
    | > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't
    believe).
    | > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they
    | > use,
    | > | > nor
    | > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not
    | > allow
    | > | > them
    | > | > | > to
    | > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the
    master
    | > | > bedroom.
    | > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO
    detectors,
    | > | > glass
    | > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage
    | > sensors,
    | > | > or
    | > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options
    | > | > between
    | > | > | > the
    | > | > | > home-owner and the security company.
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and
    pay
    | > them
    | > | > | > about
    | > | > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their
    own
    | > | > personal
    | > | > | > | vehicles.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | Jim Rojas
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > |
    | > message
    | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | >
    | > | > |
    | > | > |
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  12. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Wow..the really good ones eh?
    I don't use recessed on windows anymore either, but I do use nice small and
    correctly colored switches that fit the application.



    | They pay 45 cents each per contact...They no longer use recessed contacts
    on
    | windows due to voiding the window warranty, plus the water leaks over
    time.
    | Not worth the hassle.
    |
    | Jim Rojas
    |
    |
    | | >A problem with companies that have to use "approved" parts/devices...the
    | > contacts they used are so big they don't fit the reveals on the windows,
    | > so
    | > they end up sticking the magnets to the glass. Looks lovely on a 900,000
    $
    | > house (or any house for that matter).
    | >
    | >
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Yes, they like using that 22/2 zip wire. I tried talking them into
    using
    | > | 22/4 for all new prewires, but of course my suggestion fell on deaf
    | > ears.
    | > | Something to do with saving money... :)
    | > |
    | > | Jim Rojas
    | > |
    | > |
    | > |
    | > | | > | > phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow &
    go...and
    | > big
    | > | > clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor
    for
    | > | > windows that the do do.
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | houston
    | > | > | | > | > | > Thanks!
    | > | > | > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you
    | > don't
    | > | > | > wanna
    | > | > | > post that just be general.
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > Thanks,
    | > | > | > Rob
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it
    | > | > always
    | > | > | > goes
    | > | > | > | in the master bdrm closet.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | They always wire every opening,
    | > | > | > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
    | > | > | > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in
    most
    | > | > every
    | > | > | > room
    | > | > | > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the
    living
    | > rm
    | > | > | > ceiling.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
    | > | > | > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't
    | > change
    | > | > the
    | > | > | > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by
    | > area.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its
    always
    | > a
    | > | > | > 'package'
    | > | > | > | type upgrade.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
    | > | > | > | Upgrade can include:
    | > | > | > | The telco wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | > | The catv wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
    | > | > | > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv
    | > wiring
    | > | > &
    | > | > | > | jacks.
    | > | > | > | The additional ceiling speakers.
    | > | > | > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front
    entry
    | > if
    | > | > there
    | > | > | > is
    | > | > | > | a lot of large glass openings.
    | > | > | > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer
    it
    | > as
    | > | > an
    | > | > | > | option.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going
    | > to
    | > | > visit
    | > | > | > in
    | > | > | > | my area.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them
    somebody
    | > has
    | > | > | > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other
    | > wiring
    | > | > | > options.
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang
    for
    | > each
    | > | > | > home
    | > | > | > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with
    | > each
    | > | > client
    | > | > | > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often
    they
    | > call
    | > | > | > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of
    | > stuff
    | > | > even
    | > | > | > | though customers tell them they don't want their service.
    They
    | > are
    | > | > real
    | > | > | > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
    | > | > | > |
    | > message
    | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The
    builder
    | > | > won't
    | > | > | > let
    | > | > | > us
    | > | > | > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client
    | > said
    | > | > fine
    | > | > | > I'll
    | > | > | > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I
    move
    | > in.
    | > | > | > What
    | > | > | > am
    | > | > | > | > I
    | > | > | > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and
    what
    | > | > | > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the
    alarm
    | > | > company.
    | > | > | > He
    | > | > | > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in
    | > Florida
    | > | > or
    | > | > | > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the
    security
    | > | > system
    | > | > | > | > Ranger
    | > | > | > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full
    | > upgradable.
    | > | > | > What
    | > | > | > do
    | > | > | > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home?
    | > We'll
    | > | > | > have
    | > | > | > a
    | > | > | > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My
    | > client
    | > | > | > doesn't
    | > | > | > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up
    | > and
    | > | > down),
    | > | > | > how
    | > | > | > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
    | > | > detector,
    | > | > | > | > extra
    | > | > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I
    | > would
    | > do
    | > | > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them
    | > either!!!
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money
    | > only,
    | > | > not
    | > | > | > | > what
    | > | > | > | > the client needs or wants.
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > Portion of client's email to me:
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully
    | > capable
    | > | > of
    | > | > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't
    | > believe).
    | > | > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that
    | > they
    | > | > use,
    | > | > | > nor
    | > | > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
    | > | > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will
    not
    | > | > allow
    | > | > | > them
    | > | > | > | > to
    | > | > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the
    | > master
    | > | > | > bedroom.
    | > | > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO
    | > detectors,
    | > | > | > glass
    | > | > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows,
    garage
    | > | > sensors,
    | > | > | > or
    | > | > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market
    | > options
    | > | > | > between
    | > | > | > | > the
    | > | > | > | > home-owner and the security company.
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants,
    and
    | > pay
    | > | > them
    | > | > | > | > about
    | > | > | > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive
    their
    | > own
    | > | > | > personal
    | > | > | > | > | vehicles.
    | > | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | > | Jim Rojas
    | > | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | > |
    | > | > message
    | > | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
    | > | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > | >
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | > |
    | > | > | >
    | > | > | >
    | > | > |
    | > | > |
    | > | >
    | > | >
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  13. alarman

    alarman Guest

    I've never thought about the front door, what warranty issues??
    js
     
  14. alarman

    alarman Guest

    Didn't know that, thanks. There isn't enough room to glue a r/e magnet on
    any of the doors I have seen. The damned things are only about 3/16" deep,
    so I'll drill for that and take my chances. My contract has a clause that
    says I'm allowed to drill holes, etc. anyway, but who knows?
    js
     
  15. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    I went to visit one of Ranger American prewires yesterday:

    Cons:
    Cheep cheep cheep two conductor wire.
    Keypad locations at belly button height - you'd have to be a midget to read
    the display.
    No service loops at any of the windows or devices - if the wire gets tagged
    by drywallers your sol.
    White Contacts (cheep) on brown windows.
    3/8" holes for all wires - pita if you need to replace a switch.
    Wires parallel in electricians holes - not all but enough
    Alarm panel upstairs, Structured Wiring Box downstairs (still can't figure
    this one out. why not both in same place?)
    Interior siren mounted on a steel ring at 5" from the floor (gonna look real
    purty on that living room wall)
    One firewire coiled up in the attic ... two bedrooms downstairs 3
    upstairs...I guess we can't do a smoke downstairs.
    Flexible 2" conduit going from the alarm panel upstairs to the swb
    downstairs...WHAT FOR?? Absolutely nothing...will serve no purpose.
    They used firestop everywhere the kind that hardens like a rock. Most of us
    just stuff the holes with fiberglass insulation.

    Pros
    They actually used firewire to the attic coil
    Firewire for power & siren
    They stapled all their wires up above where the insulation will be - I was
    shocked at this.

    They are absolutely refusing to add any other options for my client (who, as
    I said is ending up buying their stuff that we will rip out and install our
    crap)




    | One word; Sheesh!
    |
    |
    |
     
  16. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Only Ranger I know of is in Texas, they going national or is that another
    Ranger?

    (Diamond stickers?)
     
  17. Texas Ranger? Chuck Norris

     
  18. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    That must be some recent expansion or result of the Centex purchase

    They do/did a hell of a great job with prewires, no idea how they do
    everything else
     
  19. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    wimpy looking white & blue signs...i think they're outta Florida


    | Only Ranger I know of is in Texas, they going national or is that another
    | Ranger?
    |
    | (Diamond stickers?)
    |
    | | > One word; Sheesh!
    | >
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
  20. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    San Antonio
     
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