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Ranger American yahoos.

C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let us
wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine I'll
buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What am I
getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company. He
does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system Ranger
Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What do
you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have a
rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client doesn't
know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down), how
many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.

But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, extra
motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!

What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not what
the client needs or wants.

Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.

Portion of client's email to me:

a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor
can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them to
prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom.
This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or
any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between the
home-owner and the security company.


| Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them about
| $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own personal
| vehicles.
|
| Jim Rojas
|
|
| | > One word; Sheesh!
| >
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim,
Thanks for the insight.

R.


| All you have to do is check with a few neighbors that took the option.
|
| 1. They use the DSC PC1555 exclusively.
| 2. They only install 1 keypad most times.
| 3. They only install 1 inside siren, which is looped to an optional
outside
| siren in the garage attic area.
| 4. They do prewire for a motion & smoke, but usually run the wiring to the
| attic hatch nearest the panel.
| 5. The ran a Cat 5 cable to the dmarc or to the home networking box.
| 6. They don't do custom installations. Their technicians would then be
| required to think...which is not allowed.
|
| They run the company like a giant boiler room manned by robots.
|
| Let them install their junk. Then afterwards call a real alarm company
that
| will listen to your needs.
|
| Jim Rojas
|
|
| | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
us
| > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
I'll
| > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
am
| > I
| > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
He
| > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
| > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
| > Ranger
| > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
do
| > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
a
| > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
doesn't
| > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
how
| > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| >
| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
| > extra
| > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
| > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| >
| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
| > what
| > the client needs or wants.
| >
| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| >
| > Portion of client's email to me:
| >
| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
| > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
| > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
nor
| > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
| > to
| > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
bedroom.
| > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
| > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
or
| > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
| > the
| > home-owner and the security company.
| >
| >
| > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
| > about
| > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
personal
| > | vehicles.
| > |
| > | Jim Rojas
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
N

Nomen Nescio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let us
wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only.

Your customer needs to tell his contractor to go **** himself. Your
contract is with the homeowner, not the contractor. The homeowner is
paying for the house, and the contractor has nothing to say about
additional work the homeowner contracts for.

Obviously, the contractor has a deal with the other alarm company to do
prewires, but that is not your problem, nor is it your customer's problem,
since he didn't agree to it. Don't take any crap from the contractor, it's
not his decision to make.

- badenov
 
T

thesatguy

Jan 1, 1970
0
In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always goes
in the master bdrm closet.

They always wire every opening,
There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every room
and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.

Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm ceiling.

They wire all the telephone jacks.
They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.

Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.

They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a 'package'
type upgrade.

The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
Upgrade can include:
The telco wiring & jacks.
The catv wiring & jacks.
The cat5 wiring & jacks.
Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
jacks.
The additional ceiling speakers.
I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there is
a lot of large glass openings.
Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
option.

I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit in
my area.

They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring options.

In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each home
and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client
while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real
pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here's the latest from my client:


""Good Evening Rob, and thanks for the info.

In the days since we last corresponded, I've spent a fair amount of effort
trying flesh this thing out for myself, too. Your friend has given you
pretty good info (meaning Jim Rojas), and the whole situation stinks.

Firstly, you're right about Ranger American, they are an amateurish,
"cookie-cutter" operation lacking sophistication or even basic business
practices. I won't bore you with a litany of my frustrating contacts with
them up to this point.

I spent an hour or so up at the development yesterday walking through an
identical house now just finishing the framing/wiring phase. It appears
that the downstairs windows and doors all are pre-wired with standard
magnetic switches, and the upstairs window over the patio roof is pre-wired
as well. None of the others upstairs are addressed. Pre-wiring for a
motion sensor in the family room (the cone covering the area from the back
sliding door up toward the front door area). One keypad in the utility
room.

And one spare wire above the attic access hatch, which is coiled and stapled
to an inside rafter above.

No attention to garage, etc.

It appears that Builder Name is immovable on the pre-wiring, which is
strange in that the sound system subcontractor is allowed to sell and
pre-wire whatever they want. So... we'll make a serious run at the
construction superintendent late this week or early next. If he agrees,
I'll pay Ranger American to run whatever additional wires that you advise.

But my hopes aren't high, Rob, because Ranger American really is a company
of losers who give your industry a bad name. If there is flexibility in the
situation, I'm quite willing to allow them to think that they'll get my
business, and pay them for the extra wiring. But you are our security man.
Period.

So, I'll need you to simply give us good advice, and reliable equipment. We
know that we'll need a new panel and two (maybe three) keypads. We know
we'll want a discreet motion sensor downstairs and up, and glass break
sensors. Obviously we want to integrate smoke, and hopefully CO. And some
sort of garage solution. We may have to simply and reluctantly accept the
wireless approach for some components.

When it's all said and done, we may drink a bottle of wine and throw a PC
1555 into the canal. We'll spend the money to get a system that affords us
the reliability we always had in the last house (actually this will be the
third house we've done for him in the past 15 years).

So, I'm hopeful that some late afternoon soon we can meet and take a look at
the apartment here, and also run up to the Meritage development. As always,
I'm most appreciative of your time and assistance. If need be, I'll pay for
your time to take a peek at the new house (or one like it).

John D ""




| All you have to do is check with a few neighbors that took the option.
|
| 1. They use the DSC PC1555 exclusively.
| 2. They only install 1 keypad most times.
| 3. They only install 1 inside siren, which is looped to an optional
outside
| siren in the garage attic area.
| 4. They do prewire for a motion & smoke, but usually run the wiring to the
| attic hatch nearest the panel.
| 5. The ran a Cat 5 cable to the dmarc or to the home networking box.
| 6. They don't do custom installations. Their technicians would then be
| required to think...which is not allowed.
|
| They run the company like a giant boiler room manned by robots.
|
| Let them install their junk. Then afterwards call a real alarm company
that
| will listen to your needs.
|
| Jim Rojas
|
|
| | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
us
| > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
I'll
| > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
am
| > I
| > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
He
| > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
| > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
| > Ranger
| > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
do
| > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
a
| > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
doesn't
| > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
how
| > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| >
| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
| > extra
| > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
| > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| >
| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
| > what
| > the client needs or wants.
| >
| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| >
| > Portion of client's email to me:
| >
| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
| > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
| > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
nor
| > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
| > to
| > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
bedroom.
| > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
| > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
or
| > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
| > the
| > home-owner and the security company.
| >
| >
| > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
| > about
| > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
personal
| > | vehicles.
| > |
| > | Jim Rojas
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
It doesn't quite work that way, unfortunately. The house is not owned by my
client until he closes on the house. The contractor (tract builder) has an
exclusive contract with Ranger American. I've been on both sides of the
issue, having had exclusives with builders myself so I can understand both
sides of the issue. The difference is that we would always accomodate the
buyer, if the buyer wanted to buy extra wiring so the could add more devices
and they were willing to pay us I had no problem with that. My theory was
that I always had a shot at getting their business away from whomever they
might be going with by addressing their needs...sometimes it panned out,
sometimes not, but in any event I wasn't running the extra wiring for free
sooo no skin off my nose.




| Crash Gordon said:
|
| >An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
us
| >wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only.
|
| Your customer needs to tell his contractor to go **** himself. Your
| contract is with the homeowner, not the contractor. The homeowner is
| paying for the house, and the contractor has nothing to say about
| additional work the homeowner contracts for.
|
| Obviously, the contractor has a deal with the other alarm company to do
| prewires, but that is not your problem, nor is it your customer's problem,
| since he didn't agree to it. Don't take any crap from the contractor,
it's
| not his decision to make.
|
| - badenov
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks!
Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't wanna
post that just be general.

Thanks,
Rob

| In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always goes
| in the master bdrm closet.
|
| They always wire every opening,
| There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
| They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every room
| and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
|
| Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm
ceiling.
|
| They wire all the telephone jacks.
| They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
| default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
|
| Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.
|
| They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
'package'
| type upgrade.
|
| The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
| Upgrade can include:
| The telco wiring & jacks.
| The catv wiring & jacks.
| The cat5 wiring & jacks.
| Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
| jacks.
| The additional ceiling speakers.
| I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there
is
| a lot of large glass openings.
| Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
| option.
|
| I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit in
| my area.
|
| They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
| purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
options.
|
| In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each home
| and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client
| while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
| customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
| though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real
| pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
|
| | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let
us
| > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
I'll
| > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What
am
| > I
| > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
He
| > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
| > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
| > Ranger
| > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What
do
| > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have
a
| > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
doesn't
| > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
how
| > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| >
| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
| > extra
| > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
| > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| >
| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
| > what
| > the client needs or wants.
| >
| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| >
| > Portion of client's email to me:
| >
| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
| > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
| > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
nor
| > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them
| > to
| > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
bedroom.
| > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass
| > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
or
| > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between
| > the
| > home-owner and the security company.
| >
| >
| > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
| > about
| > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
personal
| > | vehicles.
| > |
| > | Jim Rojas
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
T

thesatguy

Jan 1, 1970
0
houston
Crash Gordon said:
Thanks!
Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't
wanna
post that just be general.

Thanks,
Rob

| In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always
goes
| in the master bdrm closet.
|
| They always wire every opening,
| There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
| They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every
room
| and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
|
| Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm
ceiling.
|
| They wire all the telephone jacks.
| They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
| default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
|
| Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.
|
| They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
'package'
| type upgrade.
|
| The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
| Upgrade can include:
| The telco wiring & jacks.
| The catv wiring & jacks.
| The cat5 wiring & jacks.
| Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
| jacks.
| The additional ceiling speakers.
| I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there
is
| a lot of large glass openings.
| Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
| option.
|
| I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit
in
| my area.
|
| They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
| purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
options.
|
| In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each
home
| and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client
| while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
| customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
| though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real
| pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
|
| | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't
let
us
| > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
I'll
| > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in.
What
am
| > I
| > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company.
He
| > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
| > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system
| > Ranger
| > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable.
What
do
| > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll
have
a
| > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
doesn't
| > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down),
how
| > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| >
| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector,
| > extra
| > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
| > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| >
| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not
| > what
| > the client needs or wants.
| >
| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| >
| > Portion of client's email to me:
| >
| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
| > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
| > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use,
nor
| > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow
them
| > to
| > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
bedroom.
| > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors,
glass
| > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors,
or
| > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options
between
| > the
| > home-owner and the security company.
| >
| >
| > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them
| > about
| > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
personal
| > | vehicles.
| > |
| > | Jim Rojas
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow & go...and big
clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor for
windows that the do do.



| houston
| | > Thanks!
| > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't
| > wanna
| > post that just be general.
| >
| > Thanks,
| > Rob
| >
| > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always
| > goes
| > | in the master bdrm closet.
| > |
| > | They always wire every opening,
| > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
| > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every
| > room
| > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
| > |
| > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm
| > ceiling.
| > |
| > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
| > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the
| > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
| > |
| > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.
| > |
| > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
| > 'package'
| > | type upgrade.
| > |
| > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
| > | Upgrade can include:
| > | The telco wiring & jacks.
| > | The catv wiring & jacks.
| > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
| > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring &
| > | jacks.
| > | The additional ceiling speakers.
| > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if
there
| > is
| > | a lot of large glass openings.
| > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an
| > | option.
| > |
| > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to
visit
| > in
| > | my area.
| > |
| > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has
| > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
| > options.
| > |
| > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each
| > home
| > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each
client
| > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call
| > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even
| > | though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are
real
| > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
| > |
| > | | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't
| > let
| > us
| > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine
| > I'll
| > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in.
| > What
| > am
| > | > I
| > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm
company.
| > He
| > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or
| > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security
system
| > | > Ranger
| > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable.
| > What
| > do
| > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll
| > have
| > a
| > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client
| > doesn't
| > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and
down),
| > how
| > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| > | >
| > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
detector,
| > | > extra
| > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do
| > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| > | >
| > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only,
not
| > | > what
| > | > the client needs or wants.
| > | >
| > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| > | >
| > | > Portion of client's email to me:
| > | >
| > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of
| > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe).
| > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they
use,
| > nor
| > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow
| > them
| > | > to
| > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master
| > bedroom.
| > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors,
| > glass
| > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage
sensors,
| > or
| > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options
| > between
| > | > the
| > | > home-owner and the security company.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay
them
| > | > about
| > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own
| > personal
| > | > | vehicles.
| > | > |
| > | > | Jim Rojas
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
A problem with companies that have to use "approved" parts/devices...the
contacts they used are so big they don't fit the reveals on the windows, so
they end up sticking the magnets to the glass. Looks lovely on a 900,000 $
house (or any house for that matter).




| Yes, they like using that 22/2 zip wire. I tried talking them into using
| 22/4 for all new prewires, but of course my suggestion fell on deaf ears.
| Something to do with saving money... :)
|
| Jim Rojas
|
|
|
| | > phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow & go...and
big
| > clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor for
| > windows that the do do.
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | houston
| > | | > | > Thanks!
| > | > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you
don't
| > | > wanna
| > | > post that just be general.
| > | >
| > | > Thanks,
| > | > Rob
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it
| > always
| > | > goes
| > | > | in the master bdrm closet.
| > | > |
| > | > | They always wire every opening,
| > | > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
| > | > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most
| > every
| > | > room
| > | > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
| > | > |
| > | > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living
rm
| > | > ceiling.
| > | > |
| > | > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
| > | > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change
| > the
| > | > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
| > | > |
| > | > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by
area.
| > | > |
| > | > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a
| > | > 'package'
| > | > | type upgrade.
| > | > |
| > | > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
| > | > | Upgrade can include:
| > | > | The telco wiring & jacks.
| > | > | The catv wiring & jacks.
| > | > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
| > | > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv
wiring
| > &
| > | > | jacks.
| > | > | The additional ceiling speakers.
| > | > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if
| > there
| > | > is
| > | > | a lot of large glass openings.
| > | > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as
| > an
| > | > | option.
| > | > |
| > | > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to
| > visit
| > | > in
| > | > | my area.
| > | > |
| > | > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody
has
| > | > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring
| > | > options.
| > | > |
| > | > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for
each
| > | > home
| > | > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each
| > client
| > | > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they
call
| > | > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff
| > even
| > | > | though customers tell them they don't want their service. They
are
| > real
| > | > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
| > | > |
| > | > | | > | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder
| > won't
| > | > let
| > | > us
| > | > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said
| > fine
| > | > I'll
| > | > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move
in.
| > | > What
| > | > am
| > | > | > I
| > | > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what
| > | > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm
| > company.
| > | > He
| > | > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in
Florida
| > or
| > | > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security
| > system
| > | > | > Ranger
| > | > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full
upgradable.
| > | > What
| > | > do
| > | > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home?
We'll
| > | > have
| > | > a
| > | > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My
client
| > | > doesn't
| > | > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and
| > down),
| > | > how
| > | > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
| > detector,
| > | > | > extra
| > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would
do
| > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money
only,
| > not
| > | > | > what
| > | > | > the client needs or wants.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Portion of client's email to me:
| > | > | >
| > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully
capable
| > of
| > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't
believe).
| > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they
| > use,
| > | > nor
| > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not
| > allow
| > | > them
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the
master
| > | > bedroom.
| > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO
detectors,
| > | > glass
| > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage
| > sensors,
| > | > or
| > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options
| > | > between
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > home-owner and the security company.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and
pay
| > them
| > | > | > about
| > | > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their
own
| > | > personal
| > | > | > | vehicles.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Jim Rojas
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > message
| > | > | > | | > | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wow..the really good ones eh?
I don't use recessed on windows anymore either, but I do use nice small and
correctly colored switches that fit the application.



| They pay 45 cents each per contact...They no longer use recessed contacts
on
| windows due to voiding the window warranty, plus the water leaks over
time.
| Not worth the hassle.
|
| Jim Rojas
|
|
| | >A problem with companies that have to use "approved" parts/devices...the
| > contacts they used are so big they don't fit the reveals on the windows,
| > so
| > they end up sticking the magnets to the glass. Looks lovely on a 900,000
$
| > house (or any house for that matter).
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Yes, they like using that 22/2 zip wire. I tried talking them into
using
| > | 22/4 for all new prewires, but of course my suggestion fell on deaf
| > ears.
| > | Something to do with saving money... :)
| > |
| > | Jim Rojas
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | | > | > phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow &
go...and
| > big
| > | > clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor
for
| > | > windows that the do do.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | houston
| > | > | | > | > | > Thanks!
| > | > | > Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you
| > don't
| > | > | > wanna
| > | > | > post that just be general.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Thanks,
| > | > | > Rob
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it
| > | > always
| > | > | > goes
| > | > | > | in the master bdrm closet.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | They always wire every opening,
| > | > | > | There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion.
| > | > | > | They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in
most
| > | > every
| > | > | > room
| > | > | > | and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the
living
| > rm
| > | > | > ceiling.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | They wire all the telephone jacks.
| > | > | > | They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't
| > change
| > | > the
| > | > | > | default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by
| > area.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its
always
| > a
| > | > | > 'package'
| > | > | > | type upgrade.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out.
| > | > | > | Upgrade can include:
| > | > | > | The telco wiring & jacks.
| > | > | > | The catv wiring & jacks.
| > | > | > | The cat5 wiring & jacks.
| > | > | > | Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv
| > wiring
| > | > &
| > | > | > | jacks.
| > | > | > | The additional ceiling speakers.
| > | > | > | I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front
entry
| > if
| > | > there
| > | > | > is
| > | > | > | a lot of large glass openings.
| > | > | > | Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer
it
| > as
| > | > an
| > | > | > | option.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going
| > to
| > | > visit
| > | > | > in
| > | > | > | my area.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them
somebody
| > has
| > | > | > | purchased the home being built and they offer all the other
| > wiring
| > | > | > options.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang
for
| > each
| > | > | > home
| > | > | > | and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with
| > each
| > | > client
| > | > | > | while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often
they
| > call
| > | > | > | customers every week to remind them they are taking care of
| > stuff
| > | > even
| > | > | > | though customers tell them they don't want their service.
They
| > are
| > | > real
| > | > | > | pests but of course this is why they are so successful.
| > | > | > |
| > message
| > | > | > | | > | > | > | > An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The
builder
| > | > won't
| > | > | > let
| > | > | > us
| > | > | > | > wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client
| > said
| > | > fine
| > | > | > I'll
| > | > | > | > buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I
move
| > in.
| > | > | > What
| > | > | > am
| > | > | > | > I
| > | > | > | > getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and
what
| > | > | > | > devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the
alarm
| > | > company.
| > | > | > He
| > | > | > | > does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in
| > Florida
| > | > or
| > | > | > | > somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the
security
| > | > system
| > | > | > | > Ranger
| > | > | > | > Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full
| > upgradable.
| > | > | > What
| > | > | > do
| > | > | > | > you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home?
| > We'll
| > | > | > have
| > | > | > a
| > | > | > | > rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My
| > client
| > | > | > doesn't
| > | > | > | > know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up
| > and
| > | > down),
| > | > | > how
| > | > | > | > many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO
| > | > detector,
| > | > | > | > extra
| > | > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I
| > would
| > do
| > | > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them
| > either!!!
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money
| > only,
| > | > not
| > | > | > | > what
| > | > | > | > the client needs or wants.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Portion of client's email to me:
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully
| > capable
| > | > of
| > | > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't
| > believe).
| > | > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that
| > they
| > | > use,
| > | > | > nor
| > | > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information.
| > | > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will
not
| > | > allow
| > | > | > them
| > | > | > | > to
| > | > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the
| > master
| > | > | > bedroom.
| > | > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO
| > detectors,
| > | > | > glass
| > | > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows,
garage
| > | > sensors,
| > | > | > or
| > | > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market
| > options
| > | > | > between
| > | > | > | > the
| > | > | > | > home-owner and the security company.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants,
and
| > pay
| > | > them
| > | > | > | > about
| > | > | > | > | $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive
their
| > own
| > | > | > personal
| > | > | > | > | vehicles.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | Jim Rojas
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > message
| > | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > | > One word; Sheesh!
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Rojas said:
But yet the morons still drill out the sliding doors & the custom made
front doors...same warranty issue....duh!

I use surface mounts myself with the terminal screws. On the front door we
use recessed contacts with terminal screws and a rare earth magnet glued
on the door...no warranty problems, as long as we don't drill the door
itself.

I've never thought about the front door, what warranty issues??
js
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Didn't know that, thanks. There isn't enough room to glue a r/e magnet on
any of the doors I have seen. The damned things are only about 3/16" deep,
so I'll drill for that and take my chances. My contract has a clause that
says I'm allowed to drill holes, etc. anyway, but who knows?
js
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
I went to visit one of Ranger American prewires yesterday:

Cons:
Cheep cheep cheep two conductor wire.
Keypad locations at belly button height - you'd have to be a midget to read
the display.
No service loops at any of the windows or devices - if the wire gets tagged
by drywallers your sol.
White Contacts (cheep) on brown windows.
3/8" holes for all wires - pita if you need to replace a switch.
Wires parallel in electricians holes - not all but enough
Alarm panel upstairs, Structured Wiring Box downstairs (still can't figure
this one out. why not both in same place?)
Interior siren mounted on a steel ring at 5" from the floor (gonna look real
purty on that living room wall)
One firewire coiled up in the attic ... two bedrooms downstairs 3
upstairs...I guess we can't do a smoke downstairs.
Flexible 2" conduit going from the alarm panel upstairs to the swb
downstairs...WHAT FOR?? Absolutely nothing...will serve no purpose.
They used firestop everywhere the kind that hardens like a rock. Most of us
just stuff the holes with fiberglass insulation.

Pros
They actually used firewire to the attic coil
Firewire for power & siren
They stapled all their wires up above where the insulation will be - I was
shocked at this.

They are absolutely refusing to add any other options for my client (who, as
I said is ending up buying their stuff that we will rip out and install our
crap)




| One word; Sheesh!
|
|
|
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Only Ranger I know of is in Texas, they going national or is that another
Ranger?

(Diamond stickers?)
 
E

Everywhere Man

Jan 1, 1970
0
Texas Ranger? Chuck Norris

Mark said:
Only Ranger I know of is in Texas, they going national or is that another
Ranger?

(Diamond stickers?)
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
wimpy looking white & blue signs...i think they're outta Florida


| Only Ranger I know of is in Texas, they going national or is that another
| Ranger?
|
| (Diamond stickers?)
|
| | > One word; Sheesh!
| >
| >
| >
|
|
 
Top