Maker Pro
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quiet windpower

G

GL

Jan 1, 1970
0
To george Ghio and Waine (and a few others as well):

I have been absent from this group for months and subscribed again a while
ago. And I find that the two of you are still at each others throat.

Disagreeing is a right, and if the two of you see a thing differently,
support your claims with sound premises.
If you cannot support your claim then agree to disagree, because without
(scientific) support all that is left is an opinion.

Calling each other names reveal more about your personalities than you seem
to understand.

The best to both of you.

//gml
 
A

Anthony Matonak

Jan 1, 1970
0
GL wrote:
....
I have been absent from this group for months and subscribed again a while
ago. And I find that the two of you are still at each others throat.

I've found it better to simply killfile both of them.

Anthony
 
D

Derek Broughton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anthony said:
GL wrote:
...

I've found it better to simply killfile both of them.

What? They're still here? I've found that either one of them can
occasionally say something worthwhile, but since they can't stop fighting
with each other - and obviously prefer that to contributing - they might as
well just have their own newsgroup. If they'd killfile _each other_ they'd
no doubt lose interest in our newsgroups. As these fights go, George &
Wayne are models of good behaviour - they practically never do anything to
bypass my filters.
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
support your claims with sound premises.

I already supported my position with sound arguments and references in
several posts. I believe they were quite clear, but perhaps you missed
them.

You might review this page
http://www.greeleynet.com/~cmorrison/windcalc.html before reading
further.

The power density of a square meter of 33.5 mph (15mps) wind at sea
level and 60F is 2066W. But the hushcon is 1 meter in diameter, so its
potential is reduced to 1622W.

Betz limit (59%) further reduces that potential to 957W.

Allowing (generously in this case I believe) for mechanical losses
takes it down to about 600W.

Now, hushenergy claims 680W in the wind tunnel (very unlike the real
world), which is highly unlikely but not impossible. Unfortunately,
they also claim an *average* of 6000Wh per day, based on 6 hours per
day at 680W. Which doesn't add up, and ought to set off most reader's
credibility alarms.

And who believes they'll have an average of 6 hours per day of 33.5
mph wind, or anything equivalent? At a more rational wind speed of 15
mph for 6 hours, and if we were in a very charitable mood, we might
believe that the hushcon could produce about the same as the AirX (
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34756.pdf pg. 9), about 300Wh. Which
is some twenty times less than hushcon advertises. Even so, 300Wh per
day might be useful to some folks. That's about 2kWh per week, enough
to power some laundry needs for example. But at a cost of $6k? That's
insane. http://www.hushenergy.com.au/HushTurbine_A4_Autumn06.pdf

The similar size AirX has its own problems with credibility in the
advertising department, but it's substantially larger than the
hushcon, well proven, is produced by an established outfit, is far
more likely to remain supported, and costs a fraction of the hushcon's
price.

Wayne
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
As these fights go, George &
Wayne are models of good behaviour - they practically never do anything to
bypass my filters.

Not "practically". I've *never* done anything to bypass anyone's
filters.

Wayne
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
wmbjk said:
It's been around for years. Giving the benefit of the doubt, that's
plenty long enough for the maker to have waken from his dream. The
fact that he persists makes it a scam. Knowledgeable folks can see the
outrageousness of the claims right away, others need to be told. Count
yourself as the latter.

Wayne

If a product performs exactly as advertised, how is it a scam? Some
applications only need a small bit of power to operate, such as cattle
watering pumps and weather stations. If a product does so quietly, what's
the beef?
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
If a product performs exactly as advertised,

I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it performs as advertised. If
you have, then please point me to it. I've scanned all the articles
from the web site, and didn't notice any of the writers having so much
as seen the thing running, much less verifying the performance claims.
They simply parroted everything the maker told them, which is why all
the articles sound the same. The guy has been at it since the early
80's, doesn't seem shy about promotion, and the web site has been
recently updated. Yet even though a prototype was supposedly being
tested in 2003, there aren't any proper test results on display.
Wouldn't you expect that if the results supported the hype, then the
data would be featured on the web site instead of those repetitive
fluff articles?

Here is what legitimate test results look like
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34756.pdf. Read carefully, and
consider that in the real world, the larger AirX would need 40 hours
at 22mph to produce 6kWh. Since an average site doesn't have anywhere
near that much wind, hushenergy's 1 meter version's spec of 6kWh a
day *average* output is an extraordinary claim. Do you agree with that
much or not?
how is it a scam?

See my previous reply to you http://tinyurl.com/f4uam, and the text
you quoted above. Even if the guy started out as a naive dreamer, by
now he should have discovered reality, which is that the performance
he claims requires much larger swept area.

There are turbines available that have been independently tested,
proving that they *do* provide 6kwh per day average on some sites.
Some examples here
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen/Wind_Turbines_Home.htm Even
though much larger, they can be purchased for about a third of the
hush's price. You do realize that the 1 meter version is projected to
cost about $6-7000AU right?
Some
applications only need a small bit of power to operate, such as cattle
watering pumps and weather stations.

Of course, and I've written several times recently about small-wind
powering low-energy loads. Independently-tested low-power turbines are
available for a small fraction of the hush's price. But keep in mind
that battery-less applications like cattle watering usually need more
*power* than a small turbine can supply for extended periods. For
example, the turbine often mated with the Grundfos SQ Flex submersible
is 10' in diameter, which is nearly 10 times the swept area of the
hushcon's 39" version.
If a product does so quietly, what's the beef?

Get back to me if you see independent verification that the hush is
any quieter than other turbines of equal performance. Until then it's
just hyperbole, much the same as you'll find at any perpetual motion
web site.

Wayne
 
G

George Ghio

Jan 1, 1970
0
To all, Please note that there is still nothing in my posts to claim
support, or even denigrate, the claims made by the hushpower company in
regard to their wind generator.

Time will tell whether the ravings of wayne and others will be proven
true or false. In the mean time I watch many such "new products" with
sceptical interest.

Wayne wants you to believe that I support the claims of Hushpower.

I do not. Wayne is in fact telling lies, again.
 
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