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Question for group on Pull stations?

N

Nick Markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi every one i am working on an article for Pa Fireman
Magazine do you think manual pull stations are becomming obsolete should we
still be installing them as back ups.
Personally checking with many AHJ around me none can ever remember a pull
station being pulled first in a fully protected building only a building
which had just pull stations for protection manual system .The smokes
always activated first and pull stations were pulled after first alarm came
in.
mostly pull stations have been nothing more than false alarms for
communitys. for that matter do buildings that have only pull stations no
smokes give people a confidnce they think there fully protected with a
automatic fire system when there not.

all comments are welcome even yours Robert.
--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.
Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
Registered EPA Freon Recovery

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contributor www.monyoughfire.com
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

Irish Diplomacy

The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
going to enjoy the trip.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nick Markowitz said:
Hi every one i am working on an article for Pa Fireman
Magazine do you think manual pull stations are becomming obsolete should
we
still be installing them as back ups.
Personally checking with many AHJ around me none can ever remember a pull
station being pulled first in a fully protected building only a building
which had just pull stations for protection manual system .The smokes
always activated first and pull stations were pulled after first alarm
came
in.
mostly pull stations have been nothing more than false alarms for
communitys. for that matter do buildings that have only pull stations no
smokes give people a confidnce they think there fully protected with a
automatic fire system when there not.

all comments are welcome even yours Robert.


Unless they change the rules (and the building codes), pull stations will
always be a required component in any building requiring a supervised,
listed fire alarm system.
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think one of the reasons that pull stations are required is because no one
single device can provide a 100 percent guarantee detection of a fire. Smoke
& heat detectors can fail at any given time, thus a pull station can be used
to manually trigger the alarm during egress.

I have seen many improvements in the application of fire alarms over the
years, such as strobes in all restrooms, and automatic fan shutdown.

Jim Rojas
 
N

Nick Markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Good Point Jim.

--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.
Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
Registered EPA Freon Recovery

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contributor www.monyoughfire.com
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

Irish Diplomacy

The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
going to enjoy the trip.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
You have to keep in mind also, that the primary purpose of the manual pull
station is for evacuation, not only for fire, but any life threatening
situation. Most schools will even make it practice for bomb threats, as to
not alert the occupants of the actual crisis. It's the fastest way to
evacuate a building, for what ever reason, not just fire. I don't see them
ever being obsolete.
Circular motion makes people think outside the box.
There's a much bigger picture for pull stations....

Jack
 
N

Nick Markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Another good point as well how many times on TVshows or the movies you see
the bad guy being thwarted when a pull station gets pulled.

--
Nick Markowitz Jr.
Owner
Markowitz Electic Protection
Private Industry Fire Investigator.
Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
Registered EPA Freon Recovery

Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
Contributor www.monyoughfire.com
Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

"To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

Irish Diplomacy

The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
going to enjoy the trip.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nick Markowitz said:
Another good point as well how many times on TVshows or the movies you see
the bad guy being thwarted when a pull station gets pulled.

Yeah, but usually the sprinklers go off all over the building LOL.
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi every one i am working on an article for
Pa Fireman Magazine do you think manual
pull stations are becomming obsolete should
we still be installing them as back ups.

I believe that pull stations should still be a part of a fire alarm in
places of assembly, multi-family dwellings and such.

Case in point: One Sunday a number of years ago we had a small fire in our
church. A mime troupe (or should that be troop?) was performing on stage
when a prop caught fire. I was seated about three rows back from the front
and their mixer was set up just to my right. At first glance, like everyone
else in the congregation, I thought the flames were part of the act. Then I
saw the mixer. She had this look of utter horror on her face. I walked on
top of the chair backs, rushing to the hallway to grab an extinguisher and
pull the alarm. Several other men also ran for extinguishers and the fire
was put out in less than a minute. Damage was limited to a destroyed prop
and some ruined carpeting on the altar area. There wasn't that smoke but
the odor of burnt carpet was nasty.

Meanwhile the alarm sounded and strobes flashed all through the 22,000 sf
church. The nursery rooms was emptied by nervous but well-trained staff and
the kids moved out of harm's way. People in other areas of the church knew
immediately there was a fire and began to evacuate. My CS called the FD and
also called me by cell phone because they knew I was there at the time. The
trucks arrived in a few minutes and fans were brought in. The service
resumed as soon as the FD was satisfied that there was no danger. I don't
think we ever invited that mime group back. :^)

The key element here was that the alarm was sounded manually before smoke
even reached the detectors 28 feet overhead. If the fire had spread
rapidly, the danger would have been mitigated by the alarm sounding so fast.
As I'm sure you know, with fire every second counts. It is true that pull
stations are no substitute for smoke detectors in most occupied buildings,
but IMO there is still a need for pulls at every exit.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
A

Andrew Buchanan

Jan 1, 1970
0
You also use the aux. contact on the pull stations by the doors with mag
locks (if any) to provide a local release. The locks are supposed to drop
as soon as the fire alarm trips, however like its been mentioned if you need
to evacuate before the fire alarm is set off by another device or the system
fail somehow and the emerg dr is maged, you could be toast.

Andrew
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andrew Buchanan said:
You also use the aux. contact on the pull stations by the doors with mag
locks (if any) to provide a local release. The locks are supposed to drop
as soon as the fire alarm trips, however like its been mentioned if you need
to evacuate before the fire alarm is set off by another device or the system
fail somehow and the emerg dr is maged, you could be toast.

Andrew
IMO that's a bad idea, and most AHJ's would not approve a maglock going
through an auxiliary set of contacts on a pull station labeled for "Fire".
Any fire device activation needs to release magnetic locks, not just a fire
pull station. The general public wouldn't understand such a release method.
It's always best to have a separate pull station labeled for "Emergency Door
Release", which under any circumstances, including electronic failure, would
release the door.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
I believe that pull stations should still be a part of a fire alarm in
places of assembly, multi-family dwellings and such.

Case in point: One Sunday a number of years ago we had a small fire in our
church. A mime troupe (or should that be troop?) was performing on stage
when a prop caught fire.

<Snip>

Must have been terrible for the mimes.

Imangine, being held prisoner in a "box" on stage, during a fire, and
not being able to yell for help.
 
A

Andrew Buchanan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
IMO that's a bad idea, and most AHJ's would not approve a maglock going
through an auxiliary set of contacts on a pull station labeled for "Fire".
Any fire device activation needs to release magnetic locks, not just a
fire
pull station. The general public wouldn't understand such a release
method.
It's always best to have a separate pull station labeled for "Emergency
Door
Release", which under any circumstances, including electronic failure,
would
release the door.

I understand what your saying. However, in Toronto, the inspectors look for
the local release, and when the fire guys (which I'm not one of) put in the
pull stations for us they leave a 2nd wire off of the pull station aux.
contact for us to tie our mag pwr through. Maybe my wording wasn't the
best, but one contact on the pull station triggers the fire alarm (which
should drop all the building mags anyways) and the 2nd conatct locally cuts
the pwr directly to the mag the pull station is beside. This elimates any
type of delay or system failure as the door can be opened right away as the
mag has no pwr. A pull station somewhere else in the building without a mag
door beside it would not need to have this done.
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Must have been terrible for the mimes.
Imangine, being held prisoner in a "box" on
stage, during a fire, and not being able to yell
for help.

Funny Jiminex mentioned that. The prop that caught fire was a large box
with an actress inside it dressed as the devil. There were bright PAR
lights with red filters inside the box which were turned on as a signal for
her to pop out. It was supposed to give the impression of fire but not the
real thing.

The problem involved an extension cord which was partially coiled up inside
the box. This cord provided power to two or three 500-Watt PAR lamps. It
was too small for the load. Also, they didn't realize that when you put
weight on a coiled power cable it tends to heat up very fast. The actress
was kneeling on the cable inside the closed box. When the lights came on
she pushed the lid open, stood up and remained in place for a few seconds.

That much was part of the act. It was also long enough to make the prop
ignite. There was some bright colored tissue paper (something you're never
supposed to use as part of a fixed prop because it's so flammable)
decorating the edges of the box. The bottoms of the actress' sneakers were
a little scorched but she was not hurt at all.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
G

Group Moderator

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Funny Jiminex mentioned that. The prop that caught fire was a large box
with an actress inside it dressed as the devil.

Mike said:
Bass fails to mention the actress was CLUELESS - AKA Rhonda
 
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