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PSU Fan Direction

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Caroline, May 14, 2004.

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  1. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    I replaced my computer's 90-watt Newton power supply with a 180-watt Fortron
    power supply today. I have not added any other new components, so the total
    power consumed should not have changed. The new power supply unit (PSU) fits
    perfectly in every way except one: The air flow direction is reversed. The old
    fan's intake was on the back of the computer case. The fan exhaust was into the
    computer, across the heat sink and CPU, and out the back of the case. The old
    way arguably caused the case to be under a slight pressure.

    The new fan arguably puts the case under a slight vacuum.

    The heat sink prongs are hot but not so hot I can't safely (no burns) leave a
    finger on it.

    Should I just observe for awhile, playing it by ear?

    Or should I figure out a way to reverse the fan flow direction in the new power
    supply?

    All experience is welcome. I googled and am not finding anything definitive.

    Aside: After a lot of research on physical fit and electrical fit, brand names,
    and cost, I bought the new power supply from newegg.com. With shipping,
    altogether it cost $26. Ordered Tuesday night late, arrived Friday afternoon.
     
  2. Ricky Eck

    Ricky Eck Guest

    Well, I am tiring to visualize the flow. But am having a hard time doing
    it. But let me give you one rule of thumb. The cooler a CPU can run, the
    more efficient it will work. The same with the whole computer. The CPU
    should have a fan on it. This will keep the CPU cooled down. Now, it kinda
    sounds like the fan from the PSU also was the fan that cooled the CPU (on
    the old unit). Now the fan is no longer cooling the CPU. So, go to Radio
    Shack, or your local computer store, and get a CPU fan. It fits on the heat
    sink, and 2-4 screws will screw into, between the heat sink vents. If you
    are getting two fans running opposite of each other, (I.E.back forcing out,
    and the front fan forcing out, creating a void inside the case), you will
    need to reverse one of the two fans. You need to create a nice airflow
    through the case (I.E. Front to rear, or Rear to Front.) If you only have
    one fan, may I suggest another, to create a nice airflow...

    Hope this helps.
    Rick
     
  3. Vidar L.

    Vidar L. Guest

    To reverse the airstream, you have to turn the fans, by opening the psu,
    and turning it around. The standard now is front intake with or without
    fans, and only psu exhaust fan, or another additional exhaust fan.

    I'm having 2 papst 80mm fans in front, running on 6 v, and the psu
    sucking out. That is however to little...
     
  4. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    Thanks, Ricky and Vidar.

    Per your suggestions to increase the air flow, right now I am investigating a
    fan for the heat sink.

    I experimented a little more yesterday with the old power supply. To the touch,
    it didn't seem as though the old fan cooled the heat sink or CPU any better than
    the new one. I guess it's entirely possible the new fan's air circulation flow
    over the CPU and heat sink is greater than the old one's, since the new power
    supply is double the rating of the old one (180 Watts vs. 90 Watts). So maybe I
    shouldn't worry about the new air flow direction.

    But I am thinking I might get a little better performance overall if I throw in
    a heat sink fan, like you said, Ricky. Seems like a fair gamble for under $20.

    Performance seems better. For example, it seems I can dump more tasks on the
    computer at the same time. (This sometimes froze things up.) I am still getting
    some spontaneous Internet disconnects but am now suspecting the phone lines and
    weather variations in my area.

    Plus, the new power supply is quieter in steady state operation.
     
  5. Ricky Eck

    Ricky Eck Guest

    Performance seems better. For example, it seems I can dump more tasks on
    the
    Well, that "Could" increase performance. I would say that putting a power
    supply two times the amount then you had was the true increase of
    performance. However, the freezing up problem can be caused by MANY things.
    From slow processor, lack of Memory, slow video, ect. Sure, the processor
    heating up, could cause it to run slow. But to be honest with you, many of
    the lock ups are caused by software problems. Defragging the computer
    greatly reduces "Lock-Up's" Eliminating Temp Files will frees up space, and
    reducing the amount of programs running in the background (i.e. Real Player,
    Messenger programs, ect), will free up resources. Eliminate any programs
    from the start menu that you don't use. Not to mention any programs that
    isn't in the start menu, that still start upon boot. Just because it tells
    you to start at boot, don't mean you have to. It just will take longer to
    start that program, but will save resources for programs that you do use
    more often. Refrain from buying programs like "FreeMem" or "MemMaker".
    They fake Memory, and take up more resources in the processor, not to
    mention reduce hard drive space. If you want to increase Memory, then do it
    the old fashion way, buy a bigger memory chip(s)

    Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better it will run.
    Also, if you smoke, or have an unusually dust place, make sure you blow your
    computer out with some caned air, or a compressor, regularly. Dust and
    smoke can be a number one enemy on a computer, causing it to run hot, and
    reducing the life of it greatly. I had one computer that had one fan in it,
    and it was in the Power supply. Not to mention this was a large tower. So
    I placed two more fans inside it. The power supply was blowing from the
    inside out. So I put one fan in the front blowing from the outside in. And
    a fan above the power supply blowing from the inside out. The effect, the
    flow went from the front of the case, out the rear. I also had the heat
    sink fan, blowing down on the Processor, causing the heat to blow off the
    processor down to the Main board, reflecting off the Main board, and up into
    the air flow, going to the back of the case.

    Hope that helps,
    Rick
     
  6. Ricky Eck

    Ricky Eck Guest


    I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't suspect anything to so with the
    computer it's self. See the way how a modem works (I am going to use basic
    language here), is a complex language that can be described as different
    tones of noise. But there is a method to it's madness. What sounds like
    static and noise to us, is really a complex language between the two modems.
    If there is any type of interruption between this communication, it could
    cause your internet connection to be lost. One big thing, especially on the
    older modems, is call waiting. That "Beep" will interrupt the communication
    between the two modems. The newer modems comes with a program (sometimes
    built into the modem it's self), that can tell the "Beep" of call waiting.
    However, the older ones can not tell the difference, therefore gets
    confused, and disconnects. Other problems, can be cause by poor wiring in
    the phone lines. If you hear static on your line when you talk to someone,
    the modem will also. This will cause the modem to get confused, and hang
    up. Make sure you have "Error Correction" enabled on the modem. This will,
    sometimes, correct the problem.

    There is also two different modems on the market. There is the "SoftModem"
    a.k.a. "WinModem" That is software drive. This is a modem that you install
    all it's software on the Hard Drive. These can be slow, and unreliable.
    Mainly because it has to take time to read the programming off the hard
    drive. Basically, by the time the modem reads the info off the Hard Drive,
    it gives up and hangs up (Especially if you have a slow Hard Drive.) Then
    there is a Hard Modem. They are the most reliable. These modems have the
    software programmed in on the chip of the Modem it's self. Therefore
    reducing the amount of time it takes to read the programming. The only
    downfall of these, is software upgrades.

    Ever since I used a Hard Modem, I never went back to a WinModem. Hard
    modems are more expensive then a WinModem. But well worth it. However,
    before you start to replace all this hardware, check in with the phone lines
    and company, to see if you have any static or old wiring in your home. Or
    even it the "Trunk" to your home is old. 99.9% of connection problems are
    bad/old wiring in homes, and just need to be replace. One Apartment I had,
    when I used Dial-up, would be filled with static when it rained. The water
    would get into the phone lines, and would make the phone terrible for about
    3 days.

    Hope this helps,
    Rick
     
  7. There is also two different modems on the market. There is the "SoftModem"
    Not necessarily. The reliability of soft modems have greatly improved because
    of the amount of power that most computers have today.

    The resources that softmodems would use when they are operating would be
    negligible if it's used in a machine with a clock in excess of 2 GHz with over
    512 MB of RAM. In this case, the only limiting factor would be the quality of
    the software used to control the modem.
    Unfortunately, this is where most softmodems will fall short. Most cheap
    brands of softmodems have sloppily written drivers which will affect how well
    the modem can communicate and maintain a connection.
    In some cases, yes. In other cases, no.

    Again, it depends on the quality of the controlling software that is written.
    In the case of a hardware modem, where all modem control processing is handled
    by the modem and not by the host CPU, the software instructions in the modem's
    ROM chip or firmware can still be sloppily written. Another factor would be
    the quality of the chipset.
    What a modem essentially does is MOdulate the information to be sent into a
    simple analogue carrier that can be transmitted through the phone lines. The
    computer that receives this signal DEModulates it from an analogue carrier back
    into usable computer information. It modulates the information to be sent into
    a simpler form and then demodulates information it receives back into something
    that can be processed, hence the name (MOdulator DEModulator or MODEM for
    short).
    If you have call waiting, you can disable it by dialing a turn-off code,
    usually *70, at the dial tone prior to dialing out. This is what the modem is
    commanded to do if you configure your ISP software to disable call waiting.
    Any modem can do this, new or old, as any modem can be told to dial *70 or
    whatever the turn-off code is for your area.

    In my area, if the turn-off code is successfully received by the switcher at
    the phone company, the dial tone will pulse for a couple of seconds to indicate
    that call waiting is disabled.
    It's not "confusion," per se. Rather, it's noise that interferes with the
    carrier. Sometimes, the modem communication can be recovered. Sometimes, it
    can't and you have to reconnect.
    Error correction is more meant to correct errors that can occur as the
    information is transmitted through the interim. - Reinhart
     
  8. Ricky Eck

    Ricky Eck Guest

    Man, I can defiantly tell that you are "New" school. If you noticed at the
    beginning of the post I said "I am going to basic language here" meaning
    that I was not going to try to confuse the original poster. When I said the
    modem gets confused, id didn't want to go into all this description, that
    the poster may not understand. You have to remember, that may of the
    computer users over the age of 40, and some below, don't understand the
    terminology of computers, they just want to fix a problem.

    Now, with the *70, many phone companies are starting to charge to use the
    *70. You pay a monthly fee to have the option to use the *70 function.
    However, the newer modems have a call waiting Function that will alert you
    when a call comes in. But no matter if you are "Old" school, or "New"
    school, everyone can agree that you modem will work only as good as you
    phone connection. I personally have never seen a 56K reach 56K Maybe
    someone out there has, but not me.

    Rick
     
  9. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    To use basic language: I assure you a definite upper limit to the CPU's speed
    exists, and once this limit is reached, cooling further will have no effect.
     
  10. Ricky Eck

    Ricky Eck Guest

    Furthermore, the cooler you can get that Processor, the better it will
    run.
    effect.


    Oh, Most defiantly. I mean a system can only go as far as it's limits
    (kinda like that old saying "It's always in the last place you look..:)~
     
  11. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    It's not madness. It's not complex. It is engineering, in which I have three
    bachelor's and higher degrees. ;-)
    Yup.

    snip obvious

    This Gateway 900c desktop as purchased in early September, 2001 has an
    integrated modem. For a month I had terrible problems trying to get it to
    connect to the internet. I spent dozens of hours working with Gateway and
    America Online (my ISP then) to figure out why. They kept blaming each other for
    the problem, of course. Finally a Gateway tech and I narrowed it down to the
    strong possibility that the integrated modem was too sensitive to my older
    home's phone line noise. Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
    superior modem." I said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior; my old
    computer's external modem works fine and is the superior one. I'm sending your
    computer back for a full refund, per the warranty." The tech turned me over to a
    manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the computer.

    I have used the external modem ever since.

    I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several months ago.
    It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I wasn't getting
    disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

    What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects per day
    vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I have ideas where to go with this. And as I
    mentioned in the other thread here on power supplies, my computer is far from
    crippled.
     
  12. Man, I can defiantly tell that you are "New" school. If you noticed at the
    I know exactly what you intended, but the simplified explanation was simply
    wrong, if not outright confusing.

    All a modem does is take computer data and convert it into a simpler form so it
    can be sent through the phone lines to the modem at the other end. It also
    takes a signal from the modem at the other end and converts it back into
    computer info.

    That's what modems do in a nutshell. There is no simpler explanation than
    that.
    A modem doesn't get confused. It simply gets interrupted, which is what
    outside noises do.

    It's like two people talking, but you drop a soundproof wall between them for a
    couple of seconds.
    Actually, you pay a monthly fee for the call waiting service itself. Of
    course, this is for the telephone service with MCI Neighborhood. Your service
    and their charges may vary.
    Only on modems compliant with v.92 and only on ISPs that support v.92. Not
    very many ISPs in the world, however, completely support v.92. This includes
    the big names like AOL, NetZero, Earthlink, and PeoplePC.

    The reason is that the upgrade from v.90 to v.92 is very expensive with very
    little gain, plus the rise of broadband acceptance has had an impact. There's
    simply no incentive for many ISPs to widely support v.92 and the benefits that
    it has.
    That's always too true.
    And you never will, at least in the U.S.A. FCC mandates restrict data
    throughput rates on telephone lines to a maximum of 53k, and only if your phone
    line is the cleanest that is possible with minimal or absolutely no D/A
    conversion in the phone lines. - Reinhart
     
  13. Gateway said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our
    The only thing that would make the Gateway integrated modem superior is that
    it's connected directly to the southgate on the motherboard through a local bus
    as opposed to working through a PCI bus, USB port, or a parallel port.

    Other than that, I'm willing to bet it's a softmodem with a cruddy chipset,
    like a PCTel or a Motorola or an Intel, and running with a sloppy set of
    drivers.
    Good choice. All external modems are going to be hardware-based, at least for
    the parallel port variety.
    Call the phone company and have them correct the problem. They may perform a
    test and say that it's okay, but tell them that this is for a computer modem
    and while the line may be suitable for regular conversation, it is apparently
    too noisy and, therefore, unacceptable for use with a modem.

    You're paying for their services, so make them deliver you that service in the
    best way possible.
    If the problem is with the phone line, switching to an internal modem won't
    help. All it will do is take one less object off your desk and free up one
    plug outlet.

    If you are using a parallel port connection, make sure that your BIOS is set to
    allow two-way parallel port communication and that your cable is also suitable
    for that purpose.

    If you are using a USB modem, make sure that you have the most up to date
    drivers for your USB controller and that it supports the USB mode that the
    modem requires. If your modem requires USB 2.0, then your USB port and cabling
    must support USB 2.0 and your BIOS must be set to allow this mode of
    communication, if available.

    Make sure that your modem does not have problems with using system resources,
    such as I/O addresses and interrupt requests. A modem will be assigned a COM
    port which means that resources associated with that COM port should be used by
    the modem only. Your modem is most likely plug-n-play so it will be assigned
    the necessary resources by your operating system automatically, but resource
    conflicts can still occur.

    Make sure your ISP software is configured to use your modem properly.

    Other things you could try is to use a different telephone cord that is the
    shortest possible for your needs. Also, be sure that the connection is as
    direct to the phone line as possible. You can get away with running it through
    one surge suppressor, though. Don't use RF-based plug-in phone jack
    extensions, particularly those that are not clearly labeled as intended for use
    with data communications. - Reinhart
     
  14. Hi!
    I'm not so sure that communication faster than 53k is impossible to acheive.
    With a nearby local ISP I managed to get 54k or so *once*. The connection
    was reliable while it lasted, but I did eventually get disconnected. I
    remember having read the same thing about the 53k limit and wondering about
    it then...

    William
     
  15. Caroline

    Caroline Guest

    C wrote
    snip
    Hmm. I am not optimistic they can do anything or should do anything unless I pay
    them bucks$$. ;-)

    But I'll consider ringing them.
    Sorry. I meant this would be an experiement that would assist my
    troubleshooting. If for some reason the internal modem had no more nor no less
    disconnects than the external modem, then I might be able to rule out phone line
    problems. Or at least this easy experiment might give me a bit more insight into
    the problem. :)

    As I've said before, I think it's unrealistic to nail down a diagnosis on
    something as vague as this using an online forum where people can't actually
    play with my very own computer. I am trying to keep my threads very focused.
    E.g. see the subject lines of the two threads here. If my efforts seem way off,
    I'm sure someone will tell me. Also, obviously the learning curve at my end is
    steep, due to my other experience in technology.

    I am set for now. Thanks again.
     
  16. I'm not so sure that communication faster than 53k is impossible to acheive.

    I didn't say that it was impossible and it certainly is possible to connect
    above 53k, but it's supposedly illegal in the U.S.A. to go above it and
    maintain it for prolonged periods due to FCC regulations. Therefore, being
    able to see such a connection stateside on a very clean connection is unlikely
    not because it's technically unfeasible, but because it's restricted by law in
    the United States.

    Your story is the first I've heard where the 53k limit was exceeded, albeit by
    an insignificant sum.

    However, in regards to this regulation, I would think that the FCC has better
    things to do with their time than acting like a bunch of @$$es by going after
    people who are lucky enough to enjoy a faster than 53k connection on their
    telephone modems. - Reinhart
     
  17. Asimov

    Asimov Guest

    "LASERandDVDfan" bravely wrote to "All" (15 May 04 23:37:46)
    --- on the heady topic of "Re: PSU Fan Direction"

    LA> From: (LASERandDVDfan)

    LA> What a modem essentially does is MOdulate the information to be sent
    LA> into a simple analogue carrier that can be transmitted through the
    LA> phone lines. The computer that receives this signal DEModulates it
    LA> from an analogue carrier back into usable computer information. It
    LA> modulates the information to be sent into a simpler form and then
    LA> demodulates information it receives back into something that can be
    LA> processed, hence the name (MOdulator DEModulator or MODEM for short).

    Modems do a lot more than make sqweeks and squawks into the phone
    line. They compress the data and send it as packets with error
    correction. Then the receiving end receives them and decompresses the
    data. All the while both ends are monitoring line quality and
    negotiating the next transmission. Where a softmodem falls short is in
    the lack of its own cpu and a software driver must hog the main cpu to
    emulate the modem's cpu. In a very powerful pc this isn't usually too
    bad but in general mostly all other running programs suffer.

    The easiest analogy of this is an audio soundcard where the
    instruments use emulated wavetable synthesis to drive the D/A
    channels. Usually these drivers will emulate some synthesizer, like a
    Yamaha etc. This works pretty well most of the time but when the
    system starts running out of resources, the synthesizer starts to lose
    instruments, go out of tune, or do other weird sounding things.

    No software can beat a hardware system. Especially not a winmodem.

    Asimov
    ******

    .... A fail-safe circuit will destroy others.
     
  18. Sorry. I meant this would be an experiement that would assist my
    That sounds reasonable.
    True. All we can offer are essentially educated guesses until one of us can
    actually check out your computer to figure it out.
    You're welcome. Good luck! - Reinhart
     
  19. They compress the data and send it as packets with error
    Pretty much what I described, but in more elaborate detail.

    Compression would be a form of simplification to transmit while error
    correction would help to keep anomolies in the data strem in check. Sending
    them in packets would help to make the transmission more robust as opposed to
    sending it in a linear fashion.

    In other words, it simplifies the data for transmission and has redundant
    corrections and a packet strategy to help keep the data flowing reliably.

    But, again, the transmission has to be modulated in a carrier to allow it be
    sent through the phone lines, which were meant for analogue transmission
    although several A/D-D/A conversion steps can take place in the interim between
    two telephone devices (which is one of the many causes of bottlenecking in
    dial-up modem connection speeds).
    Of course.
    The biggest problem with a softmodem, if you're running it on a very powerful
    computer with plenty of overhead like extra RAM, is that the emulator program
    may be sloppily written. This has been the case with a whole bunch of
    "bargain" softmodems that I've seen.
    No argument here. This understanding was the primary reason why I replaced my
    Best Data Mach2 with a U.S. Robotics PerformancePro a few months ago when I was
    able to.

    Although the overhead gains were mainly negligible since I'm running a 2.08 GHz
    Athlon XP with 1 gig of RAM onboard, I don't get blue screen warnings anymore
    when I surf the net. The drivers for my old Best Data were probably badly
    written.

    And as for hardware modems, I'd recommend only 3Com/U.S. Robotics, which
    generally use Texas Instruments solutions, or modems with an Agere (formerly
    known as Lucent) solution. - Reinhart
     
  20. Asimov

    Asimov Guest

    "Caroline" bravely wrote to "All" (16 May 04 01:36:50)
    --- on the heady topic of "Re: PSU Fan Direction"

    Ca> From: "Caroline" <>

    Ca> It's not madness. It's not complex. It is engineering, in which I have
    Ca> three bachelor's and higher degrees. ;-)
    Ca> Yup.

    Ca> snip obvious

    Ca> This Gateway 900c desktop as purchased in early September, 2001 has an
    Ca> integrated modem. For a month I had terrible problems trying to get it
    Ca> to connect to the internet. I spent dozens of hours working with
    Ca> Gateway and America Online (my ISP then) to figure out why. They kept
    Ca> blaming each other for the problem, of course. Finally a Gateway tech
    Ca> and I narrowed it down to the strong possibility that the integrated
    Ca> modem was too sensitive to my older home's phone line noise. Gateway
    Ca> said, "Too bad your house can't make use of our superior modem." I
    Ca> said, "Not so fast. Your modem is not superior; my old computer's
    Ca> external modem works fine and is the superior one. I'm sending your
    Ca> computer back for a full refund, per the warranty." The tech turned me
    Ca> over to a manager who agreed to pay for an external modem. I kept the
    Ca> computer.
    Ca> I have used the external modem ever since.

    Ca> I did a modem noise check of my phone lines (in my new home) several
    Ca> months ago. It was somewhat high but then things settled down and I
    Ca> wasn't getting disconnected. Now the problem has returned.

    Ca> What I probably should do to troubleshoot further is graph disconnects
    Ca> per day vs. weather trends. Also, maybe I'll try the internal modem.

    Ca> Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I have ideas where to go with
    Ca> this. And as I mentioned in the other thread here on power supplies, my
    Ca> computer is far from crippled.

    Some modems have trouble with being too sensitive. I've heard of a
    trick of using a variable L-pot to attenuate the phone line signal the
    modem receives. I've never had to use this tip so I can't say.

    However a common cause of noise in a phone line is dirty RJ phone
    connections. Replace those that cleaning doesn't seem to help.
    There can be a lot of connectors on a phone line and each is a
    potential source of noise.

    Asimov
    ******

    .... If plugging it in doesn't help, turn it on.
     
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