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Protection from electromagnetic pulse

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Integrator741, Jun 16, 2013.

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  1. Integrator741

    Integrator741

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    Jun 16, 2013
    Hello,
    I am trying to find some sort of system which would protect my small electronic components from large electromagnetic pulse that other machinery causes.

    thanks.
     
  2. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    One method is to unplug them and wrap them in aluminium foil.

    Presumably that isn't what you want.

    We need more details about what it is you need to protect, from what exactly, and how both are powered.
     
  3. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Jan 15, 2010
    Yeah, more information here.
    Are you actually sure it's an electromagnetic pulse (transmitted through the air) that
    you're dealing with. Or line surges when your other machinery kicks on or off?
    There are a lot of commercially available shielding parts available from a lot of manufacturers,
    if what you're trying to do is shield your sensitive circuit components from outside EMI).
     
  4. Integrator741

    Integrator741

    125
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    Jun 16, 2013
    Electromagnetic pulse is caused by a fly press..
    And around fly press there is mass production process which is affected by EMP which is caused by a fly press..

    If I understand this right, i need some sort of screening from this big machinery? or maybe i can use a electromagnetic pulse discharger, please help me with this.

    Thanks.
     
  5. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    I've googled a fly press and I don't see why this equipment would generate EMP (I thing you mean some form of electrical noise, not EMP).

    You need to describe what effect this interferance has and on what types of equipment, and how close they are to this fly press.

    We'll also need to know what sort of motor is in the fly press, the voltage and current ratings (or voltage and power in hp perhaps).

    I don't really understand the operation of a fly press so you might have to explain when the motor is activated and deactivated, how the device works (basically) so we know how the load varies on the motor etc. (and so we can relate when the interferance occurs to the load or change in load on the motor).

    With these things we (and I don't mean me specifically) should have sufficient information to hazard a guess as to why the interferance is generated and whay might be done to resolve it.

    My first suggestion though would be to go back to the manufacturer and ask them what can be done, possibly inquiring if there are already some suppression devices on the equipment and how to check that they are still attached or still effective.
     
  6. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    At this stage, till more info is given, I'm going along with shrtrnd and steve on this one

    are you REALLY SURE its an EMP ?
    it sounds more like a high voltage spike on the power line along the lines of an inductive kick from motor(s) in the press switching on and off this
    spike is coming out of the press on the power feed and into other equip that may be running off the same phase(s) as the press

    This is not an uncommon problem and is much more likely than an EMP radiated into the air from the press

    Dave
     
  7. Integrator741

    Integrator741

    125
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    Jun 16, 2013
    Okay, I spoke with a technician and it turns out that flying press causes disruptions to other things, but heres how it is.

    Imagine a production system. A fly pres is moving around that system. Now imagine one point of information inside that system and another point of information somewhere in an office. Production information is transmitted through a 30 m cable (cable is not identified).

    A receiver who receives information from the system gets occupied information (again occupation is not stated) but we know that this problem is caused by a electro magnetic pulse which is created by a fly press when its motor is activated and deactivated.
     
  8. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Jan 15, 2010
    Brother, you're describing a line-voltage surge/spike.
    Just in case, having worked in industrical electronics most of my life, I'd look into
    RFI/EMI (Radio Freq/Electro-Magntic Interference) for your close proximity circuits.
    Replacing the 30m cable with a shielded cable may be enough to solve your problem,
    if it's a EMI spike problem.
    I'm confused, so I think you might be confused about the EXACT source of your problem.
    Sure, I know it's the 'fly press'. But it still COULD be feedback noise or a pulse on the
    power input line, interferring with your production information line. And/or the over-the-
    air EMI pulse created when cycling the fly press.
    Your description tells me you're convinced it's an EMI pulse (your EMP pulse).
    You could be totally correct, just don't discount the power-line noise completely yet.
     
  9. Integrator741

    Integrator741

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    Jun 16, 2013
    Ok, that sounds like something new.. What do you think about RS-422 cables??
     
  10. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    As long as the interference is picked up by the cable, better cables or differential signalling (RS 422) might help.

    One of the key things to discover is *how* the interference is getting in (or even what symptoms it causes). As I recall, you've been fairly silent on that.

    OK, maybe not silent, but you've been describing the problem in terms that are quite unlikely
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  11. john monks

    john monks

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    Mar 9, 2012
    Have you considered an optical fiber interface?
     
  12. shrtrnd

    shrtrnd

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    Jan 15, 2010
    That's the first thing I thought of, if the cable is the 'antenna' picking-up the interference.
    It's tough to determine that with the info we've heard so far.
    There's obviously a spike of some type happening. It just takes some checking
    to determine if the spike is being transmitted though the power-line, or over the air.
    As weird as it sounds. I've found many times that even though the two power jacks may
    be far apart, a large 'turn-on' power spike can interfere with equipment some distance
    from the source if they share the same power-line.
    This is one of those things that you just wish you could check for yourself to be sure.
     
  13. Integrator741

    Integrator741

    125
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    Jun 16, 2013
    Well first of all, optical fiber interface is expensive and my data transmission from the system to a PC is only 30m.

    And somebody asked me what kind of problem I get in my output signal. The problem is in binary information. The production system feeds in binary information and the output gives me distorted information and like i mentioned before, that i am informed that this is caused by electromagnetic pulse. (Sorry that this information was delayed)
     
  14. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    I believe the problem is caused by pink unicorns.

    Do you have any evidence that it is EMP and not pink unicorns?

    You're really not going to be able to solve the problem properly until you determine the cause. Then you can address that specific cause.

    If it's EMP, then perhaps a grounded shield made from mu metal surrounding the source of the pulse is the answer. Either that or placing the rest of your equipment in a concrete bunker 30 metres underground...
     
  15. Integrator741

    Integrator741

    125
    4
    Jun 16, 2013
    It is EMP. And I believe the only solution is RS 422 or RS 485 since the cables have immunity from EMP/EMI. And plus they've got good data speed, rgiht? Or Am i missing something??
     
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