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proper response?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by John Larkin, Aug 23, 2007.

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  1. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    I just finished designing another board, a waveform generator, and I
    asked one of my guys, my most-recent hire actually, to look it over
    before we gerber it. He said "I really don't have my head into what I
    was doing, so I'll take a day or so and give it a full check assuming
    that it was designed by an idiot."

    What should I have replied to a statement like that?

  2. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I don't know the employee's personality, nor, for that matter, I don't
    really know yours... you don't always respond well when I razz you a
    bit ;-)

    So I'd wait and see what he says.

    If he comes off as all mouth and no brains, bounce his head off the
    sidewalk on the way out the door.

    ...Jim Thompson
  3. Tim Shoppa

    Tim Shoppa Guest

    Some guys really have to approach everything as a "get deep into it"
    ab initio sort of start every single time. These sorts of guys can be
    very thorough.

    At the same time, there are others who will just unfold the schematic
    and point here and there and ask some stupid questions and see the
    overall purpose and many of the details right away. Yet will miss some
    really obvious boners in design because they don't make an ab initio
    sort of start.

    In the perfect world, you get both kinds on your team. It sounds like
    you've got at least one of the ab initio sort of guys. Personally I do
    not fall into that category but I do realize their value and

  4. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    I'd have a friendly chat with the guy to see where he's really coming
    from. Using the word "idiot" in front of my boss, especially if it
    refers to the boss, would never come into my mind. Not even in a joking way.

    Yesterday I received the same request except that it's the 2nd round,
    Gerber checks. So I made sure to ask what the client wanted me to check
    and, roughly, how much effort to put into it. After all they have to pay
    me. Found a few things, listed them along with suggestions, he replied
    that he'll incorporate them, done. That's what I'd also expect from an

    BTW I'll probably be at that client a month from now. Bay Area, other
    end from you (Hayward) but maybe we can have a brewsky then. Depends a
    bit on what we'll find and how much late night oil we'll have to burn.
  5. Joel Kolstad

    Joel Kolstad Guest

    Well, if he meant the part about (your) being an idiot in jest it sounds like
    a perfectly reasonable statement. In general I want people reviewing my
    designs to make no assumptions that just because I've been doing this a little
    while they dont' have to be as vigilent as they would with someone less

    I have one ticked-off tech today who went to some signal integrity classes
    some months back and came home with the mantra of, "bypass each and every
    power pin on a connector with its own capacitor to ground!" We have a tiny
    1/2" long connector with 8 power pins that go straight back to a *battery*
    (there are L-C filters and regulators before those power pins touch any Vcc
    nets) and he was pissed that I made him delete 7 of his 8 caps.

    Same guy also bought into the "return currents will go completely around cuts
    in ground planes!" mantra, although I think I've convinced him it's not
    *quite* that simple in real circuits at reasonable frequencies.

    I'm liking your point about the potential damage caused by some of the circuit
    design books & seminars presenting their material as canon more and more...

  6. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    Tell him "thanks, good idea then you should be more comfortable with it
  7. Nothing. Just let him solve the problems if any. Seems that he is long
    enough in designs not to jump with "I know, I know!" of greenhorns.
    And his attitude may prove itself in the end. Who can say?


  8. mpm

    mpm Guest

    Sounds like a Slacker, or a Prima Donna to me.
    Either way, as long as the job gets done and nobody's feelings are

    You might coach him that management opportunities are seldom offered
    to folks who engage in this sort of behavior, even if they are
    talented. Though it does occasionally happen in spite of, or even
    because of it.

  9. Genome

    Genome Guest

    How did you make the request?

    'Yo!, New Snot. Shit work needs doing! You ARE UP. Check job
    759087w36357-98 before we **** things up again. It's on the server
    somewhere. I'm busy bye!!!!!!!!!'


    'I've just finished a design for blah blah, it's a blah blah. Dave
    laid out the board and we need someone to check stuff over before we
    send it out for manufacture. I know. It's shit work but we do that
    here. Someone elses mind outside the job tends to find other peoples
    **** ups.

    Here's the information you'll need about the design. Give it a quick
    look and I'll go over it in more detail with you in a bit. Come back
    and ask me any questions. Dave knows you've been targetted so you can
    bother him as well.'

    'Right DAVE! Monkey's set up GOLF NOW!'

  10. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    "Well, you'd better hurry up and get started."

  11. Hal Murray

    Hal Murray Guest

    Why would anybody consider checking a design "shit work"?

    I'd consider it a good opportunity to learn something and be
    a bit proud that somebody thought I was smart enough to maybe
    catch one of their bugs. (And I make sure to say "thanks"
    when somebody catches one of my bugs/oversights)
  12. Good cop: "Sweety will you please apply your talent and experience to
    give us your kind approval over the board schematics and layout"

    Here is another idea:

    "Why the design it is not verified yet?"

    This way you encourage the employee initiative to do the necessary
    things without having them to be asked about it.

    Vladimir Vassilevsky

    DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
  13. Genome

    Genome Guest

    Well, there you go. I'd be a piss poor manager as well.

    You still managed to snip some bits of my post that implied the person
    concerned would be getting more involved in the design and with the
    people rather than.....

    "to look it over before we gerber it."

    Which sort of implies the poor sod would be looking over a PCB layout
    and looking for design rule violations........ shit work.

    It's what you ask and how you ask it.

    Sorry to have failed.

  14. "Sounds good"?

    Would you want him checking it under the assumption the designer (you)
    is infallible, or do you want him checking all the stupid little
    things that are the ones that usually go wrong (not the big
    complicated things, which are usually foremost in one's mind during
    the design process).

    Of course "Goodbye" is another possible answer, and it's your

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
  15. Is he an engineer?

    If so... Tell him that engineers are social retards, not designer
    idiots, so he doesn't need to take such an extreme POV on a design.

    It'll go right over his head, but you can laugh inside.
  16. Genome

    Genome Guest


    "Here's the information you'll need about the design. Give it a quick
    look and I'll go over it in more detail with you in a bit. Come back
    and ask me any questions. Dave knows you've been targetted so you can
    bother him as well."

    It's not some KGB incident and it's not some concept about man
    management for the sake of screwing the employee.

    If (big if) I had given someone a job and I managed to get a response
    like that out of them I'd be asking myself where I had gone wrong or
    I'd be really pleased.

    Assuming I thought I'd got the right person for the job then I'd
    either be wondering about how well I've got things set up to get them
    integrated into the company to begin with or I'd know it was right
    because I got such an off hand response.

    I'd still have to ask if things are OK and do something if they are
    not. And then I'd have to be stupid and say OK take a rest from that,
    do this and if you get a Eureka moment and want to blather at

  17. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    But a newsgroup is such a convenient place to be crabby without
    consequences. Especially for people like me who are so darned nice in
    real life.

  18. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    What I said was "Perfect. Thanks."

    He found a couple of goodies, too. I always check my own stuff as if
    an idiot designed it.

  19. I wish I had the balls to say that when I first started in this business.
    Your response should be, "and I will do like wise"! He will be perfect in
    your sales department.
  20. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    Sno-o-o-ort ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
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