Connect with us

Problems with Relay !

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by shadowflare99, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    I have a question but i don't know what i relly need

    i thnik i need a some relays but how to connect it

    I have a push-botton with 4 connector.

    It's not a push who keep the position. the contact work only when the botton is pressed, when release contact is off.

    But i know it's simple to get a switch botton but i want keep this switch ( original switch in a car ).

    First the swtich connector work like this :

    Connector A : Black Ground
    Connector B : Yellow : 12v + Signal from BCM to light up the Fog LAMP indicator (when the fog is on this lamp is suppose to be on.
    Connector C : Orange : Wire Fog Lamp Switch signal To BCM (it's a Négative Ground output). But this switch is not on only when pressed. ( momentary signal and it release )
    Connector D : 12v + signal From Interior Light up ( DRL - signal from car )

    http://www.alexfocus.com/images/fogswitch.jpg
    Original : http://www.alexfocus.com/pdf/carbcm.pdf


    And i want to Bypass the Connector C to BCM ( FOG lmp SW SIG #16 )

    Because it cost very very much money to modify this to dealer.

    i want to know if i can put some relay
    to connect this relay at 85-86 to activate the relay to put fog lamp on (HID lamp) But i want to keep the car switch, but it's just a momentary signal ... not permanent i just want to know if i can do something ?? ( i put HID on RELAY to battery because i want a constant 12+V)

    http://www.alexfocus.com/images/hid.jpg


    Can i put this thing by splitting my connector C to each negative ? but i think i suppose to add something.

    This my draft of my project. it's all right ?? Can you help me ?

    http://www.alexfocus.com/images/relay.jpg

    this a another Draft i thint it will be more simple ... but i don't know how to keep ground on when press once, and cut the ground when press a second time ... and can reput the ground when press a third time ... etc ...

    http://www.alexfocus.com/images/relayv2.jpg

    Thank you very much ever body for your respond ! :eek:

    PS if the link don't work just copy and past in the adress bar
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  2. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    Well i know ... I can add a simple switch... but i want to keep original switch from my car... anybody can't help me ??

    i'm sure we can do something with some relays..

    please help me
     
  3. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    Just for clarification... What state is pin C at normally, and pressed? Am I correct to assume when it's not pressed and the orange wire is disconnected that it's floating? And when pressed it goes to ground?
     
  4. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    Weel when we press on the switch . The C was close. But until i press the switch. Beceaus when i release it the circuit was open.

    I want to have something to close permentaly when i presse once. (to activate the relay who open my fog light) and when i presse a second time it will open the cirxuit agan. Like a simple switch with a spring inside.
    Thank you
     
  5. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012

    You have totally right when in normal is floating. When press is ground. But when we release the bouton it return to open.(floating)

    I want to know if i can do something to convert to : when press once it keep the ground. And when press a secons time it return to float (open)


    Thank you
     
  6. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    I fully understand it's momentary now and you want it to latch like a normal on/off switch...

    Thus the reason I asked the questions I did, so that I can point you in the right direction...

    I need to know if it's logic low or high when pressed, and if it's being pulled the opposite way internally or by the orange wire when not pressed... So please address my questions and we will go from there...

    **edit crossed post, thanks for the clarification...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  7. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    Also when C is press the led on B light up because the switch close for the led. I wish when i press it permenant on the light and activate my relay in + or - ... And when i press a second tim it get off the led on B and closr my fog light on relay .
     
  8. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    OK I'm going to give you a quick overview instead of details, since I dead tired from the weekend and off to bed in a bit... This isn't the only way to do it but I believe it's one of the easier straight forward ways...

    First review the inverter circuit here...

    http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/trancirc.htm#inverter

    I would probably consider the higher value resistors they suggest for your application... This will invert the logic of button C, so that instead of GND when you press you will get +12, and this makes the next part of my suggestion work ;)

    Review this thread

    https://www.electronicspoint.com/momentary-off-t250690p2.html

    I linked to a small device you can purchase to do the latching... If your HIDs are under 10A this is all you will need in addition to the inverter circuit... If you need more switching, read the end of the thread where you would interface this latching circuit to a relay to do the switching, and don't forget the flyback diode I suggest on the relay at the end of the thread...

    To light up the LED take the output of the latching board (linked module) and in addition to having it light the lights or trip a relay feed it back to pin B to light the LED when on...
     
  9. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012


    What did you mean with a logic low or high when pressed ?

    I can't inverse in the switch all was sealed.
     
  10. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    You have already clarified it, in your followup post that was made at the same time as mine...
     
  11. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
  12. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
  13. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    i read your transistor circuits : and Any general purpose low power NPN transistor ..

    what a low power ... ?! like 40 volt ? or less ?
     
  14. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    One second, hold off on what I said, after further review you probably don't have to invert the output of your existing button, I'm not sure of whether the push button on the module is pulling high or low when pressed and without knowing that the plan won't work as I described... I really need to get some sleep, but to progress further with my initial idea an email would have to be dropped to Pololu to see what the included push button is actually doing...

    **EDIT Actually after a little more review of the module, I have to asked to you to hold tight as the module isn't exactly what I assumed, and a different approach will work better... Btu, I won't be replying until sometime tomorrow after I get some sleep and have a clear head to give better input...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  15. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    Ok not problem ... Go sleep ...

    Thank you for you help ... I will try to find something .. Too on my side ;)
     
  16. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    So did you find something ??
     
  17. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    Yes, not the most eloquent solution but it will work... It could certainly be improved upon but I would need some more data on the module that I don't have...

    I will get you up a quick and dirty diagram in a few hours... One question I have is are you in the US or ? I plan to use at least one or two Radio Shack part so if you are not in the US I would have to point you towards an alternative...

    Also are you HID lights over 10 Amps draw? I suspect they are but I just want to verify...
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  18. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    i'm not living in USA ... i'm in canada ..

    and if i remember, in nominal it's 7-8 amp but in warmup it's 13-15 ... i think ... i'm not at home... so i will check it tomorow ...
     
  19. shadowflare99

    shadowflare99

    29
    0
    Aug 7, 2012
    but in montreal i have addison, i can found every piece what i need to build.
     
  20. CocaCola

    CocaCola

    3,635
    4
    Apr 7, 2012
    OK well you are going to have to source two 12V relays to do this, most autoparts stores will have them... For the 'small' one it can be a small relay as it's only carrying a few mA, the 'larger' one should be rated for at least 20 Amps, probably 30 Amps to be safe... Make sure they are both 12V coil relays (most automotive ones are)...

    Disconnect the wire from your existing 'C' terminal as you won't be using that signal back to the computer... Instead it will be connected to the coil of the first relay to provide a temporary ground when pressed... The other side of the relay should be connected to +12V...

    When 'C' is pressed it will trigger the relay that will act as a momentary push button on the module from Pololu... The module comes with the push button disconnected and for this application it should be left off and just the relay wired to the two points... When the module gets the momentary press it will latch the outputs either on or off depending on their previous state... Press once 'on' press twice 'off' and so on...

    The module should be connected to an 'always on' 12V source if you want it to remember it's last state, aka stay on or off between restarts...

    The Ground on the module should be Chassis grounded...

    The Vout of the module goes back to 'B' on you switch and should thus light up that LED... It also goes to the coil of the larger relay that will turn the HID on/off... The ground of that relays coils goes back to ground on the relay as pictured... This will be the latched output for the lights, the relay is just carrying the load for the module...

    Note as stated if you want the HIDs to go on and off with the car you would connect the 'B' terminal of the bigger relay to a +12V source that turns off when the car is off instead of pictured to an always on +12V source...

    Don't forget to fuse any connections to the battery, a 20A fuse should suffice for this...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-