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Problem with old ceiling fan

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting and Repair' started by Recruiter, Nov 26, 2012.

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  1. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012
    I have 4 old, 6 blade, 3 speed, Quoizel Ceiling fans. I purchase 4 of them, at the same time, and mounted them. Several years ago, the low speed stopped working on one of them, so I took it down, and since then, anytime something went wrong with any of the others, I've been cannibalizing it to fix the other fans. Recently, 2 of the other fans have also stopped working at low speed. High and medium are fine. I can tell electricity is going to the motor, because you can hear the hum, even though the fan isn't turning. Turn it off, and the hum stops.
    Inside the fan, connected to the swith, is a 4 wire transformer. According to the original Quoizel wiring diagram, the part number is K129SWX. I tried to Google the part number, and kept getting the Transformer toys. Obviously not right.
    Does anyone know how I can repair these fans? They were very expensive at the time, and more importantly, we have yet to find a fan that puts out as much air circulation as these do.
    I am assuming the problem is in the transformers. What is the chance it could be bad brushes, or dirty windings? How would I be able to tell?
    Thanks for any help I can get
    Dave
     
  2. KJ6EAD

    KJ6EAD

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    Aug 13, 2011
    I'm not familiar with that particular brand but it sounds like you have bad run capacitors. They would look like one of these:
    [​IMG]

    If that's not it, post a picture of that so-called transformer.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  3. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Nov 28, 2011
    If you have several capacitors, some from fans that work and some from fans that don't, swap them around, to see whether the problem is the capacitors or the motors.

    In my experience (1 repair so far :), ceiling fan motors accumulate gunk and/or drift off-centre, either of which makes them turn less freely and be unable to turn themselves on a low power setting. The first symptom is that the motor runs increasingly slowly, and takes an increasingly long time to get up to speed.

    Check that the rotating part in the middle of the motor is exactly in the centre, not closer to the gap it fits into on any side. If it is, you may be able to tap the supporting metal bits with a hammer to adjust the centring. Also you may want to remove the rotating part, and clean it, and the inside surfaces of the gap it sits inside, using a wet rag with some dishwashing liquid.

    Of course the problem could also be with the bearings; you could try lubricating them or replacing them.

    Also you could take some nice clear close-up photos of the faulty motor(s) and upload them here. It always helps to be able to SEE the things we're discussing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  4. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012
    The picture shows the transformer that is in the ceiling fan. I have already tried swapping out the old for the spare, but it still isn't working. Same results. You hear the hum, but the fan won't move in low speed.
    If, in fact, it is a case of a dirty motor, how would I go about getting it cleaned out? The last time I brought the first motor somewhere, they didn't know what to do with it. They told me it was a specialized motor, since there is the rotating shaft, protruding from an attached tube. Is it something that I can do, or does it need to be done in a shop?
    Thanks
    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  5. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    OK so you exchanged transformers and the motor that didn't work properly is still not working properly, so you've concluded that it IS the motor, not the transformer, right?

    My guess is you should be able to dismantle the motor and clean it out, but you'll need to rely on your own resourcefulness, so it's up to you whether you want to proceed.

    In my previous post I mentioned something about uploading some nice clear photos of the motor. Without those, we have very little idea what we're talking about.
     
  6. KJ6EAD

    KJ6EAD

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    Aug 13, 2011
    There are a few fan parts suppliers online. You might ask them about this. Do your fans have run capacitors?
     
  7. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012
    As was requested, I uploaded some pics of the motor.
    1. The label on the motor.
    2. View from the bottom end, where the flywheel and blades would attach. The switches and speed controls would be attached below, on the threaded portion.
    3. Top side, where it attaches to the house power.
    4. Full side view
    5. The reason why the motor repair companies were stumped. The inside, threaded tube is stationary. The outer tube, is the part that rotates. No one here was familiar with this type of setup.

    This particular motor has been in the basement for several years. It comes from the spare fan. The inside is visibly dusty, at least. Would it normally be that difficult to open the motor, to clean it out?
    Thanks
    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  8. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  9. KJ6EAD

    KJ6EAD

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    Aug 13, 2011
    Yes, but they're all solid-shaft motors without the H337 suffix.
     
  10. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    OK, well if that's all the information that's out there, no one here is likely to know any more about them, are they?

    He can use that information to find out how to dismantle the thing, what kind of problems they usually have, and what kind of maintenance he can try on it.

    There's nothing we can do from here, is there? His best chance of fixing it would be to learn as much as he can, give it a go, and try to be resourceful.
     
  11. duke37

    duke37

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    Jan 9, 2011
    Ceiling fans are not needed here!

    The motor looks to be an AC capacitor run motor, with speed controlled by voltage variation.
    You could check the winding resistance.
    You could check the capacitor by substitution.
    You could check the bearings - does it turn freely.
    There are four bolts holding the motor together, with a big enough hammer you may be able to get it apart to clean or replace any stiff bearing.

    I would guess that dust has dropped down the tube and worked its way into the bearing.

    If you dismantle the motor, mark the parts to put it back as it was otherwise it may go backwards. Only you know if you are capable of such work.
     
  12. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    I would guess that too. So can you clean the bearing? (Assuming you can get access to it.) Maybe spraying lubricant into it, then rotating it, would make the gunk come out? Then you would re-lubricate it, with grease I suppose?
    Well put!
     
  13. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012
    The issue with the hollow shaft, was the same one I came up against about 10 years ago, when the first motor (pictured) stopped working in low speed. Noone knew what to do with it, or wanted to risk working on it. Now, I have 2 more motors, all doing the same thing. I'd like to try to figure out how to fix them up, so I can use the ceiling fans again.
    BTW: and this will show my ignorance, which type of spray lubricant was KrisBlueNZ referring to?
    Thanks
    Dave
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  14. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    I was referring to something like CRC 5-56. I'm not sure whether it exists in your country. It's an oily liquid in an aerosol can, that's used for loosening rusted bolts and expelling water from car electrical systems, that sort of thing. I imagine it would dissolve any grease inside the bearing, and all the crap would just come out. Also perhaps an ultrasonic cleaner would help. These are just suggestions; I have little experience here.

    If no one else will have a go at your motors, and they're no use as they are, you have nothing to lose by having a go at them. But as duke37 said, only you know if you are capable of such work.
     
  15. pwdixon

    pwdixon

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    Oct 14, 2012
    Sounds like WD40 in the UK. I've used copper grease (from a car parts shop) to ease a motor that got stuck through dirt on a fridge freezer and that worked pretty well.
     
  16. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012
    WD4 is the lubricant most available here in the US. I have seen CRC 5-56 also available in a variety of outlets here, but it is considered more of a specialty lubricant. You can find WD40 just about anywhere here.
    The outer shaft of the motor seems to be turning fairly freely, at least by hand. I haven't hooked it up to electricity in quite some time. The issue that the local electric motor companies had was, they didn't know if it needed any parts, whether they would be available. I am now thinking of bringing it to someone, and simply have them crack open the motor, and clean out the dust and junk that has accumulated, and grease the bearings, if possible. If I can do that, It may work again.
     
  17. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Sounds like a good plan. Just ask them to do what they can, and tell you what they find, what they've done, and what they think, not to guarantee that they will be able to fix it.
     
  18. Recruiter

    Recruiter

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    Nov 25, 2012

    Good advise
    Actually hadn't thought of approaching it that way. It would probably put the shop more at ease with trying it, and to be honest, I know I'm not going to get a "like new" motor anyways. As long as it will be able to keep on running. If it works, I can then swap out the other 2 motors that don't work (currently mounted) have them fixed up also. Swap out 2 of them, and I'll still have 1 waiting, when the last one stops on me.
    If the shops still won't touch it, I may try my hand at it, on the spare motor. I won't have anything to lose, at that point!
    Thanks
    Dave
     
  19. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Nov 28, 2011
    I hope you can find a repair shop that will be flexible about it. As long as they know that you're prepared to pay for their time, they should be OK with it. If possible, ask to speak to a tech.
     
  20. Recruiter

    Recruiter

    9
    0
    Nov 25, 2012
    I'm curious. The CRC 5-56 seems to be a bit more difficult to find locally, than I thought. I had an old can of it, but from storage, there wasn't any pressure left in it.
    I am able to get CRC 2-26 fairly readily. Any thoughts as to how useful that would be, to loosen up the shaft and bearings?
    Thanks
    Dave
     
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