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Problem, Solution = gerbils??

Discussion in 'Misc Electronics' started by Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\, Jul 12, 2004.

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  1. I and probably a lotta other people have a chronic problem that is in
    need of a simple solution. We're about to move into a new bldg and I
    have to do a lotta install'ns of PCs, etc., so I'm under the desk a lot.
    Every room in the new bldg has the motion sensors that turn off the
    lights after a few minutrd, and I have to continually get up and wave my
    arms to reactivate the sensors.

    Some of the sensors are PIR motion detectors, and some are ultrasonic.
    The US ones could be fooled with a fan in front of the sensor, But how
    can I fool a PIR motion sensor? I have to have a warm, moving body in
    front of the sensor, maybe a caged animal? Or a long wave IR generator
    that moves or generates an intermittent output. I've ruled out candles
    or other flames for safety reasons. A friend suggested a Lavalamp might
    work, but I don't think I want to wait ten or twenty minutes to warm it
    up. Maybe one of those old lamps with the rotating picture and fan
    blades on top, that turns by convection currents from the light bulb
    heat. I know that the IR output from IR LEDs is much too short a
    wavelenght. Any ideas? Thanks.

    --
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  2. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    3' long board with incandescent light bulbs on each end, plus a timer
    to cycle them appropriately ???

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  3. As I stated, and you deleted, I would *not* consider candles and flames
    because of safety and fire concerns. Thanks, anyway.
     
  4. I take it you mean an astable flip-flop that drives the lamps
    alternately. I'm wondering if the abrupt switching will keep the PIR
    sensor triggered. I'm thinking that long wave IR would come from a lamp
    that's not even glowing visibly. Maybe just a dull glow. Since the IR
    all goes into the same sensor, are two separate IR sources really
    needed? Maybe I should experiment with just a single lamp..
     
  5. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Watson A.Name -

    ** A PIR sensor is a passive infrared **movement** detector - so they do
    not respond to fixed lights being turned on and off in the usual way. They
    might respond to a flashing light though - if you get the rate right.





    ......... Phil
     
  6. Bill Garber

    Bill Garber Guest

    "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    :
    : : >
    : > "Watson A.Name -
    : >
    : > > I take it you mean an astable flip-flop that drives the
    lamps
    : > > alternately. I'm wondering if the abrupt switching will
    keep the
    : PIR
    : > > sensor triggered. I'm thinking that long wave IR would
    come from a
    : lamp
    : > > that's not even glowing visibly. Maybe just a dull glow.
    Since the
    : IR
    : > > all goes into the same sensor, are two separate IR sources
    really
    : > > needed? Maybe I should experiment with just a single
    lamp..
    : > >
    : >
    : >
    : > ** A PIR sensor is a passive infrared **movement**
    etector - so
    : they do
    : > not respond to fixed lights being turned on and off in the
    usual way.
    : They
    : > might respond to a flashing light though - if you get the
    rate
    : right.
    :
    : Maybe a lamp behind a slowly rotating fan? Maybe a lamp
    reflected off a
    : moving mirror?

    Why not just remove the cover and flip
    the override switch?

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
    Change DOT to a dot to contact me
     
  7. right.

    Maybe a lamp behind a slowly rotating fan? Maybe a lamp reflected off a
    moving mirror?
     
  8. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Watson A.Name "

    ** Or maybe a lamp with a a row of dancing girls in front ??




    ........... Phil
     
  9. I suppose I could do that for one room with a lot of PCs. But I'd
    probably spend too much time diong that if I have a few dozen rooms to
    do, each with a one or two PCs. The newer switches don't have
    ON-Auto-OFF, just Auto and Off, so one can't defeat the sensor. I've
    opened up switches to adjust the sensitivity or time, but I've never
    seen one with an overrride. It sure would be convenient if I had a box
    that I could just carry from one room to another. Thanks.
     
  10. Girls or gerbils, I'd settle for any warm body. Just as long as its's
    moving. But I'd have to pay the girls for their time...
     
  11. Bill Garber

    Bill Garber Guest

    "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    :
    : : >
    : > "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    : > : > :
    : > : : > : >
    : > : > "Watson A.Name -
    : > : >
    : > : > > I take it you mean an astable flip-flop that drives the
    : > lamps
    : > : > > alternately. I'm wondering if the abrupt switching
    will
    : > keep the
    : > : PIR
    : > : > > sensor triggered. I'm thinking that long wave IR would
    : > come from a
    : > : lamp
    : > : > > that's not even glowing visibly. Maybe just a dull
    glow.
    : > Since the
    : > : IR
    : > : > > all goes into the same sensor, are two separate IR
    sources
    : > really
    : > : > > needed? Maybe I should experiment with just a single
    : > lamp..
    : > : > >
    : > : >
    : > : >
    : > : > ** A PIR sensor is a passive infrared **movement**
    : > etector - so
    : > : they do
    : > : > not respond to fixed lights being turned on and off in
    the
    : > usual way.
    : > : They
    : > : > might respond to a flashing light though - if you get
    the
    : > rate
    : > : right.
    : > :
    : > : Maybe a lamp behind a slowly rotating fan? Maybe a lamp
    : > reflected off a
    : > : moving mirror?
    : >
    : > Why not just remove the cover and flip
    : > the override switch?
    :
    : I suppose I could do that for one room with a lot of PCs. But
    I'd
    : probably spend too much time diong that if I have a few dozen
    rooms to
    : do, each with a one or two PCs. The newer switches don't have
    : ON-Auto-OFF, just Auto and Off, so one can't defeat the sensor.
    I've
    : opened up switches to adjust the sensitivity or time, but I've
    never
    : seen one with an overrride. It sure would be convenient if I
    had a box
    : that I could just carry from one room to another. Thanks.

    True, most newer ones only can be set OFF.
    How about a cheap pendulum clock on a stand?
    It would constantly be moving over the sensor.

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
    Change DOT to a dot to contact me
     
  12. Well, if it isn't radiating IR, in other words a warm body, it shouldn't
    trigger the motion sensor. My understanding is that the PIR sensors
    were made to avoid problems that occured with ultrasonic sensors, such
    as the wind blowing drapes and triggering the motion sensor. So I'd
    still have to have some kind of warm body dangling from the pendulum.
    That's why I suggested gerbils. But come to think of it, those little
    critters are nocturnal, and sleep most of the day. So maybe not such a
    good idea.
     
  13. message [snip]
    I come armed with a couple flashlights with LEDs replacing the light
    bulbs, so I'm good to go in that respect. It's just that I've got only
    two hands and they're usually occupied with something, so I can't hold
    the flashlight on where I'm working. And besides, when one sets up PCs,
    one often just sits waiting for the damned things to restart, and the
    lights often go off while one is waiting. That's mighty inconvenient to
    have to type in the dark. I got some LED headlamps, maybe I'll try one
    of those. But they don't always shine light where it's needed, like
    around a corner, or whatever.

    But thank you for the idea. I just got a new brainstorm. I'll grab one
    of the 375W floodlights from the maintenance dept, you know, those big
    yellow things on a yellow tripod, with the big reflector that holds a 4"
    tube of tungsten, might be halogen, or whatever. The construction crews
    use them for doing their thing when there's no power for lights in a
    building. I can just drag it from room to room and plug it in, and
    screw them silly sensors! Probably a much quicker solution than trying
    to fool the sensors.
     
  14. Bill Garber

    Bill Garber Guest

    "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    :
    : : >
    : > "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    : > : > :
    : > : : > : >
    : > : > "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
    : > : > : > : > :
    message
    : > : > : : > : > : >
    : > : > : > "Watson A.Name -
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : > > I take it you mean an astable flip-flop that drives
    the
    : > : > lamps
    : > : > : > > alternately. I'm wondering if the abrupt switching
    : > will
    : > : > keep the
    : > : > : PIR
    : > : > : > > sensor triggered. I'm thinking that long wave IR
    would
    : > : > come from a
    : > : > : lamp
    : > : > : > > that's not even glowing visibly. Maybe just a dull
    : > glow.
    : > : > Since the
    : > : > : IR
    : > : > : > > all goes into the same sensor, are two separate IR
    : > sources
    : > : > really
    : > : > : > > needed? Maybe I should experiment with just a
    single
    : > : > lamp..
    : > : > : > >
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : > ** A PIR sensor is a passive infrared **movement**
    : > : > etector - so
    : > : > : they do
    : > : > : > not respond to fixed lights being turned on and off
    in
    : > the
    : > : > usual way.
    : > : > : They
    : > : > : > might respond to a flashing light though - if you
    get
    : > the
    : > : > rate
    : > : > : right.
    : > : > :
    : > : > : Maybe a lamp behind a slowly rotating fan? Maybe a
    lamp
    : > : > reflected off a
    : > : > : moving mirror?
    : > : >
    : > : > Why not just remove the cover and flip
    : > : > the override switch?
    : > :
    : > : I suppose I could do that for one room with a lot of PCs.
    But
    : > I'd
    : > : probably spend too much time diong that if I have a few
    dozen
    : > rooms to
    : > : do, each with a one or two PCs. The newer switches don't
    have
    : > : ON-Auto-OFF, just Auto and Off, so one can't defeat the
    sensor.
    : > I've
    : > : opened up switches to adjust the sensitivity or time, but
    I've
    : > never
    : > : seen one with an overrride. It sure would be convenient if
    I
    : > had a box
    : > : that I could just carry from one room to another. Thanks.
    : >
    : > True, most newer ones only can be set OFF.
    : > How about a cheap pendulum clock on a stand?
    : > It would constantly be moving over the sensor.
    : >
    : > Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
    :
    : Well, if it isn't radiating IR, in other words a warm body, it
    shouldn't
    : trigger the motion sensor. My understanding is that the PIR
    sensors
    : were made to avoid problems that occured with ultrasonic
    sensors, such
    : as the wind blowing drapes and triggering the motion sensor.
    So I'd
    : still have to have some kind of warm body dangling from the
    pendulum.
    : That's why I suggested gerbils. But come to think of it, those
    little
    : critters are nocturnal, and sleep most of the day. So maybe
    not such a
    : good idea.

    Not only that, but they are dirty little buggers and
    stink to the high heavens if you don't keep their
    traps cleaned out regularly. :eek:)

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
    Change DOT to a dot to contact me
     
  15. Now I am not quite sure what devices are being used, but all the PIR
    movement sensors for lights I ahve seen can be toggled into an 'always
    on' mode by quickly switching the light switch off the on.
     
  16. Clint Sharp

    Clint Sharp Guest

    How 'bout something like a Scalextric with a filament bulb mounted on
    each car's roof. Not only do you fool the sensor, you can have fun at
    the same time.
     
  17. I suggest trying a single automotive tail-lamp bulb modulated at 2-3Hz
    (555 + MOSFET driver). You don't really need to simulate motion with
    the pyroelectric sensors- in fact they have to turn motion of the
    target into an AC signal with their Fresnel lens.

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  18. Well, thank you for that information. The usual new bldg has these
    sensors installed by the electricians, and then all the instructions are
    discarded along with the leftover packaging, so absolutely *no* one has
    a clue as to how these work and what to do with them. Isn't that
    crazily amazing..
     
  19. Now that takes some chutzpa. Using the PIR excuse for playing around
    with toys. But, yeah, that's a good idea. Gotta figure out how to
    power the light bulb, tho.
     
  20. I've got an IRF630 and a 2SK2135(?) laying around, maybe I'll make up a
    power flasher. I guess a 555 isn't really needed, just a flip-flop. I
    don't need full brightness, so I guess 6 to 9V would be enough supply V,
    assuming that the FETs will turn on enough at that voltage. The bulb
    should last about forever. Maybe a wall wart would handle the power.
    I might connect two lamps in series to get lower brightness.
     
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