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Pricing/cost question

D

dep_blueman

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am looking into having a hardwired system installed in an new to me
existing home and, having Brinks at my present home, received the
following quote from them.

2 keypads
4 doors
3 motion
3 fire/smoke
2 remote key-fobs (not sure if I want it; subtract ~90 if I don't take
it)
3 year agreement @ 23/month
+ standard Brinks contract where they 'own' the equiptment, etc.
Total installed is $541.00

Can anyone provide me with a better understanding of how this price
(in general) would compare to the pricing of a system from a 'local'
(e.g. not Brinks, ADT, or the like) in which I own the equiptment,
have the installers code, and can choose any monitoring service, etc,
etc. I don't need exact numbers but I want to understand if I should
expect to pay about the same, 2x as much, 4x as much, etc.

Also, when pruchasing from a local dealer do they often require that
you use their monitoring service? What are the typical monthly
prices? I want to have as much information up front before speaking
with other dealers to best use their time and mine.

Thanks in advance for your information.

-D
 
J

Jasonst

Jan 1, 1970
0
If your a DIYer be sure to closey investigate (primarily if you buy online)
any of the alarm sellers. You wouldnt want to buy from someone whose
sideline is understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it
later by
knowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. They could call up your
alarm and do any number of things to disable it or render it ineffective
without your knowledge..ever.
Be wary of those who do not have a brick and mortar store. When I was
shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised a ASA
certification with a picture of a ASA eblem shown on their website. It
gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that it
was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly post
complaints, with no entrys of
complaints or followthru. It was analagous to someone flashing a police
badge that turns out to be fake.
The ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and potentially a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someones unselfish need to
make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of
getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but dont act on the advice
until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a
Google search of past news postings. You will be surprized at what you find
out bout some offering to outfit your alarm. This is a very unregulated
online business, and especially risky for something as important as your
home security.

good luck.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
That sounds reasonable enough at first glance but there are a few problems.

1. How would one investigate an online dealer? Licensing is no guaranty of
honesty. Insurance protects the seller -- not you. Virtually no bonding
company will protect those not under contract with the insured dealer.
Besides, almost none of the online dealers in the trade list any such
information on their websites. Even if you decide that some firm is fine
they might still have a snake in the wood pile about whom neither you nor
they are aware.

"How would one investigate an online dealer?" Ask questions... lot's of
them. You can "start" here:
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/buyingonline.htm.

Having insurance demonstrates a degree of concern on the part of the seller.
How do *you* protect yourself from possible legal action arising from your
operations? Some "sellers" would simply "fold their tent" and move it
elsewhere. As for the proverbial "snake in the wood pile"... It's just
that... "Proverbial"...

2. While a little bit of paranoia is probably a healthy thing, the idea that
an online dealer might exploit his knowledge of an alarm system located
thousands of miles from his office in order to get your credit cards and
jewelry is pretty far-fetched. To my knowledge there has never been a case
like that. If there had been you can rest assured that the "install only"
dealers would post copies of the news stories daily for at least 20 years.

Agreed... That is a bit "far fetched"... It becomes even more so when the
dealer is licensed in their State, bonded and insured.

That is also true of every local alarm dealer and every employee or
ex-employee who happened to have access to a company PC or laptop during the
course of his work. In fact, since the clients of an installing dealer are
almost invariably within driving distance from the dealer's office they are
more likely to be at risk. Yet even that is extremely rare. It has
happened with at least one installing dealer whose name escapes me. Jim
Rojas might know because ISTR it occured in his area (no one associated with
Jim was involved). To my knowledge no online dealer has ever even been
accused of doing something like this.

I've never heard of it happening either, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't
do your "diligence" on anyone you anticipate doing business with on the
Internet. Investigate the protection offered by your credit card company as
well. I often caution clients to use a seperate credit card (with a
reletively low limit) for their on line purchases. Again, using an alarm
dealer/vendor that's got a "brick and mortar" business is preferable to one
that doesn't (even price is often negotiable and you have the added
assurance that they're legit). A fancy website with tons of FAQ's is
relatively easy to put together. Maintaining a physical local presence
often requires a good deal more time, work and effort. *Ask* the important
questions!


Many give advice because they like to do so. Some of us also hope to make a
sale. There is nothing nefarious about offering free assistance in the hope
of gaining a customer.

<snip>

There are those of us that aren't in this "for the sale". "A pitch" doesn't
form part of their response either. Some of us enjoy participating in a
professional forum for the sheer pleasure of being able to learn what
attracts the "NY chicks" (and where to eat when you go there)... :)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
--

Regards,
Robert

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================>


Bullfrank! You don't make any attempt whatsoever to verify anything about
the dealers you recommend. You've admitted as much before. Your
endorsement means zip.

Where did I admit that?? What do you know about what's been put in place fo
r the new web site? You're making "assumptions" based on prejudice. If you
indeed have bonding and insurance, you would qualify for a free listing on
the new website. You obviously haven't seen it "all" yet...


Unfortunately, there are people who post here, including Frank Olson, who
pretend to have a list of "qualified" dealers when in fact they have no
knowledge of the operations, license status, insurance, bonding or anything
else -- especially the honesty or lack thereof -- of the dealers they
"list".

I don't vouch for a vendor's "honesty" (although there are some I wouldn't
hesitate recommending). The fact that they're "bonded", "insured" and/or
"licensed" should say loads about them (and how they run their business).
But that's just a "start". I also advocate people contemplating the
purchase of a security system (whether it's on line or through a local
company) ask some questions and do some further investigation.

Buyer beware indeed!
Check!!



Visa, MC and Amex all offer "chargeback" protection in case you get stung.


Not a bad idea.


... makes not one iota of difference.

To you, perhaps not... To me (or the guy on the street)?? Maybe it does!!

Among the worst crooks in the business are many of the so-called "authorized
dealers" whose brick and mortar alarm businesses have been ripping the
public off, not to mention flooding the country's police and fire
departments with false alarmsm, for years.

There are "bad apples in every bushel"... You have to "check 'em out"
before you start peeling them for the pie... And that is *all* I'm saying!!

Really? Try it sometime. I spent years building my FAQ and my website.

Do I hear violins??

Not that it makes any difference to the end user but I've been working
18-hours most days ever since I got into this business over 26 years ago.
My online store opened over six years ago and became my primary business
when I sold my brick and mortar store. I'd say I'm a bit more qualified
than Frank to discuss what is involved in building and *supporting* an
online business.

You've been in the "business" of selling security systems on line for six
years (your site could still use some work). You were licensed as an
installer (so you say) in 1988. There's a huge difference between *owning*
(and running) an alarm company and actually *doing* the installations and
service. You've been *out* of the installation/service business for six
years. I wonder what exactly that does make you "qualified" to discuss.

You're here trying to impress a few industry types who hang out here. So
far you've failed miserably.

Not according the the number of email's I've been receiving lately...

Oh, yes it does. Every thread in which you participate invariably bogs down
in your little crusade.

What "crusade" is that, Robert??

As usual you're way off base. The cutest girls in NY all come to Sarasota.
Of course, most don't move here until they reach retirement age but who's
checking? :^)


I've seen some "Sarasota" gals... They ain't much to write Tom about...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
The only problem is more than half of the DIY dealers listed, do not display
any license or insurance information.

That is something they'll have to address isn't it??

Actually, there are a number of verified cases where brick and mortar alarmco
employees have been involved in burglaries of customer's premises. Didn't
someone post a link to one such case not to long ago?

I think I saw that too... I guess there's "bad apples" in every bushel...

But you really have no way to correlate the two together as far as quality and
honesty is concern.

It's a "listing"... Not a measure of either their honesty, integrity or
their business acumen. I couldn't (nor would I even attempt to) do that.
Mike tried though... (http://www.altsecurityalarms.com).

If I own a brick and mortar alarmco and also an alarm
parts supply business, if they are separate companies, the license of one has
no bearing (in many states) on the operation of the other.

Every "on line Dealer" that's listed is a subsidiary of a brick and mortar
alarm company. Check it out for yourself.
The same goes for
insurance, if I have E&O insurance on my security consulting work, and I decide
to open an online company selling security parts, do you really think that
insurance is valid and will cover the parts selling business?

If it's a *seperate* company, you'd need a *seperate* insurance policy. If
you decided to open an on line store as a *subsidiary* of your primary
business, I would think a "rider" would suffice (and be considerably cheaper
than a seperate policy).
I need to get
separate insurance to cover the second business. Unless the operation is an
integrated part of the other, simply because the owner's are the same means
nothing.

Check...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
I would do that very soon especially if you keep mentioning to check the web
sites for licensing and insurance info.
You listed 5 on-line stores and I went and randomly selected five states on
Rodney's site and every company listed in each of those states, displayed their
license number on his site.


"LISTING" Oh No Not Another One !!!!!!
This newsgroup has been down the "listing" road before and you really don't
want to say that's all you're doing while still attempting to make it sound
like those being "Listed" are more reliable and legal than others. I won't
rehash it, but I'm sure that parts of the discussion on "Listed" will make an

I did and that's not what they are saying on their web site. Remember, when
you say brick and mortar alarm company, I'm looking for a licensed selling,
installation and service company, not just a building made out of bricks and
mortar. If that's the case, Home Deport and Radio Shack are legitimate On-Line
Dealers and should be listed if they ask.


Thanks Rob... Your feedback is *always* appreciated...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
Anytime.

Now, don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with acting as a
listing service for alarm dealers. The issue is when the criteria for being
listed is not being followed. Another concern is when some dealers are
excluded based on a bias writing of the criteria.


I agree... I'll follow up with the dealers already listed. As for your
last concern, I've decided to open the service to anyone (Store or Dealer)
who wants a listing (subject to a couple of provisions)... Check the home
page and http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/advertise.htm.
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
That sounds reasonable enough at first glance but there are a few problems.

1. How would one investigate an online dealer? Licensing is no guaranty of
honesty. Insurance protects the seller -- not you. Virtually no bonding
company will protect those not under contract with the insured dealer.
Besides, almost none of the online dealers in the trade list any such
information on their websites. Even if you decide that some firm is fine
they might still have a snake in the wood pile about whom neither you nor
they are aware.

Well a criminal background check would be a nice start
 
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