Powerline modem

[Marco Trapanese]

Hello,

what would you recommend to communicate over a powerline? I'm talking
about a 230VAC L+N.

The best would be a completely transparent modem.
I used Cypress CY8CPLC10 chips but they require a lot of external
components and they are quite expensive.

Some colleagues discouraged me to use ST and NXP powerline products.
They say those components aren't very reliable.

What do you think about?
Thanks

Marco

 

[Marco Trapanese]

Il 02/11/2012 17:04, Andrzej Ekiert ha scritto:

Well, I would shamelessly recommend my powerline modem library and
reference design, that does BPSK in software on a dsPIC:
http://protronik.pl/plm.html

Interesting!
I did something similar years ago - like an rtty transceiver. Ok,
different frequencies but similar concept.

I was afraid it doesn't work on a noisy and wide power network of a
large apartment.

But if you did that I'm sure it works!
Marco

 

[[email protected]]

Il 02/11/2012 17:04, Andrzej Ekiert ha scritto:



Interesting!
I did something similar years ago - like an rtty transceiver. Ok,
different frequencies but similar concept.

I was afraid it doesn't work on a noisy and wide power network of a
large apartment.

But if you did that I'm sure it works!
Marco

This appears to be 230/400 Vac 50 Hz environment with possibly three
phases even in every apartment in an apartment building,

There might be problems communicating between devices, connected to
different phases. The only communication path would be through
capacitive coupling in the feeder cable to the distribution panel.

 

[Marco Trapanese]

Il 02/11/2012 20:55, [email protected] ha scritto:

This appears to be 230/400 Vac 50 Hz environment with possibly three
phases even in every apartment in an apartment building,

There might be problems communicating between devices, connected to
different phases. The only communication path would be through
capacitive coupling in the feeder cable to the distribution panel.

Here is very unlikely to have different phases in each apartment of the
same building.
Of course isn't possible to communicate between two apartments due to
the power meter which "isolate" each one. But I don't want this.
I want to communicate within the same apartment only.

About the coupling with the power line, do you know any app note that
describes the best ways to design the front-end?

Thanks!
Marco

 

[[email protected]]

Il 02/11/2012 20:55, [email protected] ha scritto:



Here is very unlikely to have different phases in each apartment of the
same building.

I have 3x16 A circuit breakers for the electric stove in my 7th floor
apartment (after a renovation two years ago). I have not measured, if
the mains sockets in different rooms are on different phases.

Of course isn't possible to communicate between two apartments due to
the power meter which "isolate" each one. But I don't want this.
I want to communicate within the same apartment only.

About the coupling with the power line, do you know any app note that
describes the best ways to design the front-end?

I have only been involved with powerline communication, in order to
prevent the buildup of internet service providers from using PLC
technology, due to the RF pollution caused by these PLC systems.

Anyway powerline communication is usable at reasonable bit rates and
reasonable distances. Have you studied for instance what couplers LON
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LonWorks) systems are using ?

 

[Marco Trapanese]

Il 03/11/2012 13:55, Andrzej Ekiert ha scritto:

Maybe rare in apartment buildings, but common in standalone residential
houses. Anyway, easy do deal with using a capacitive coupler that could
be installed in the breaker panel. Any three-phase device usually
provides enough coupling to get the transmission going (e.g. a flow
water heater, electric oven).

I'm talking about my (little) experience here in Italy.

That's a common myth. Energy meters don't significantly filter signals
in the CENELEC bands. Unless, of course, someone somewhere installs
meters with a built-in filter. Having heard about that, I have yet to
see such a thing in the field.

I did some tests with my front-door friends and our energy meters
prevent the communication.

Marco

 

[Marco Trapanese]

Il 03/11/2012 15:17, Andrzej Ekiert ha scritto:

Italy. You live in the only (I think) country that has deployed PLC for
automatic meter reading on massive scale. May be that
ENEL's modems/meters include filters to keep the medium quiet.

I guess you're right.

You do
have a solid state meter with a PLC modem, don't you?

yep, this one:

http://www.enel.it/it-IT/reti/enel_distribuzione/qualita/progetti_contatore_elettronico/

Marco

 

[Jasen Betts]

Hello,

what would you recommend to communicate over a powerline? I'm talking
about a 230VAC L+N.

It depends what you want.

how much range, how much bandwidth, how much cost....

 

[Marco Trapanese]

Il 03/11/2012 15:31, Jasen Betts ha scritto:

how much range

within a single apartment.

how much bandwidth

about 2400 bps is enough.

how much cost....

as low as possible, of course
But I'd prefer smaller size rather than lower cost.

Marco

 

[linnix]

Use some of those 430 MHz modules.

For example the fan control in my bathroom sends data that way to a big exhaust fan in the attic.

Digital encoded commands, like a remote control.

My power company uses 2.5GHz smart meter. They probably know something about what not to use. i.e. Powerline modem. 2.5GHz is more standalize than 430/800/900MHz and not much more expensive.