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Positive Lightning?

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Radium, Sep 2, 2006.

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  1. Radium

    Radium Guest

    Hi:

    Positive lightning consists of the movement of positive ions. Its
    voltage and amperage are considerably higher than that of negative
    lightning. As a result, positive lightning is more dangerous -- both to
    living and non-living entities-- than negative lightning. Negative
    lightning consists simply of free-electrons moving from negative to
    positive region.

    My question is, what are the chemicals that positively charged in the
    positive lighting? Are they are H+ ions? What other positively charged
    chemicals make up positive lightning?


    Regards,

    Radium
     
  2. Tim Williams

    Tim Williams Guest

    Electrons are a thousand times lighter than even the lightest ion (H+), so
    carry 99.9% of the electric current, NO MATTER THE DIRECTION.

    A positive charge is merely an absence of negative charge.

    So go ahead and read a damn book, this is in any physics text dealing with
    electricity.

    Tim
     
  3. Radium

    Radium Guest

    So, IOW, the absence of an electron. Thats a bit confusing.
     
  4. Radium

    Radium Guest

    In positive lightning, positive charges take the place of electrons.
    What are these positive charges? You say they are "absence of negative
    charges". I am stumped here.
     
  5. Chris

    Chris Guest

    Hi again, radium. In any matter with no net charge, positive charge
    and negative charge balance out. If there's more electrons than
    protons, there's a net negative charge. If there are fewer electrons
    than protons, you have a net positive charge.

    Again, this is sci.*.*. It's kind of assumed you'll make an effort
    here.

    If the charge business is still confusing, most eighth grade science
    textbooks will have a good basic explanation in the electicity section
    -- it's usually toward the back of the book.

    Cheers
    Chris
     
  6. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

     
  7. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    Perhaps this will clear it up for you:

    So these two Cesium atoms are walking down the street. Says the
    first Cesium atom, "Oh my god! I think I'm missing an electron".
    Says the second, "are you sure?" Says the first, "I'm positive".
     
  8. jasen

    jasen Guest

    sounds like bullshit to me.

    Bye.
    Jasen
     
  9. jasen

    jasen Guest

    Positive ions are atoms (or groups of atoms) with too-few electrons to
    balance the charge of the protons in the nucleus.

    the air is roughly 4/5 nitrogen so expect a high proportion of nitrogen ions.
    This isn't something you read on keeleynet is it?
    Those guys do an immitation of science.

    Bye.
    Jasen
     
  10. Positive lightning is when the cloud is positive with respect to
    ground, where negative or ordinary lightning has the cloud negative wrt
    ground. So in both cases, there are a positive and negative side, and
    the charge movement is still in the form of electrons. The streamers
    that initiate the strike, which I take it are lines of ionized air
    reaching for the opposite polarity, will be negative or positive at
    cloud and ground depending on the type of lightning. A positive
    streamer probably consists of ionized air that has a deficiency of
    electrons, because the electrons were sucked away by the electric
    field. There would have to be positive ions in that streamer, but they
    wouldn't move very much, because their mass is thousands of times
    greater than that of electrons (1800 for a single proton; so for an
    oxygen atom, for example, 30,000 times greater). With an electric
    field, and an electron with one negative charge and an atom with one
    positive charge that is 30,000 times heavier, the movement will be
    similarly divided.
    The answer to what is in the positively charge streamer is just
    whatever atoms make up air, but ionized by the loss of electrons. But
    the positive ions don't move much and the charge transfer is by
    electrons.

    I googled an interesting article about positive and bipolar lightning:

    http://tinyurl.com/nmmcc
     
  11. Radium

    Radium Guest

    Thanks for clearing my confusion.
     
  12. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    And there's the low-power-factor kind, imaginary lightning.

    John
     
  13. Bob Myers

    Bob Myers Guest

    Since at least most of the assertions in the above are incorrect,
    your questions are completely meaningless.

    Bob M.
     
  14. It would appear that the storms that have +ve strikes occur with the
    huge cells that produce megalightning. And this has been associated
    with the upper atmosphere radiation layer, the ionosphere.

    Perhaps it isn't hydrogen that is involved directly.

    But there is a lot of it around.

    I doubt there are many primers that discuss positively charged strikes,
    so you can safely ignore the idiots who try to tear strips off you.
    They will fall over their own arses sooner rather than later.
     
  15. Positive lighting means that free-electrons are moving from the earth to
    clouds. So do not worry about chemicals.

    Steve
     
  16. nope, thats not true. Electronics tend to just be the easiest method to use
    as energy transfer.

    You can have neutron flow, proton flow, ionic flow, and probably even
    others. Plamsa can also conduct I'd imagine its due to both electronic and
    ionic reasons.
    hmm... so is a negative charge the absence of positive charge?
    Not true. I have many physics books I would wager that not all of them(or
    even half) deal with this specific subject. I do have a book that deals
    specifically with netron flow and using it for energy transfer. Ofcours
    ethe problem with these things is they are not easy to use. Electrons ar
    ethe easiest because we can guide them with wires.
     
  17. Charles

    Charles Guest

    How do you make neutron flow?
     
  18. Tim Auton

    Tim Auton Guest

    Tell me how there is a net movement of charge when you shift neutrons
    about. I could do with a laugh.


    Tim
     
  19. Sjouke Burry

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    For lightning: Electrons up and/or down,
    they cause plasma, but that plasma certainly
    does not "flow" in any useful way, its just formed,
    and then dissipates,while creating the big
    thunderclap.
     
  20. Tim Williams

    Tim Williams Guest

    It seems to me there could be a whole mess of complicated dynamics around
    the matter which neutron stars are made of: convection, gravitational and
    strong-force interactions at least; but an electrical current, i.e.,
    movement of electric charge, obviously not.

    Tim
     
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