Plus energy village in Freiburg Germany

[Roland Mösl]

All the roofs toward south only photovoltaic, nothing else.
The houses produce more energy than they use them selves.

So they are plus energy houses.

Houses only using not so much energy are from yesterday.
Only houses producing energy are a secure investment for the coming years.

Highly insulated houses with u=0,1 (Watt per squaremeter degree Celsius)

All realized with common real estate prices for the city Freiburg in Germany

http://live.pege.org/2005-plus-energy-village

 

[[email protected]]

http://live.pege.org/2005-plus-energy-village

All the roofs toward south only photovoltaic, nothing else.
The houses produce more energy than they use them selves.

Does that calculation include the energy cooking and
heating the house and water for showers, or is there
a big propane tank?

So they are plus energy houses.

Pay no attention to the big propane tank?

Houses only using not so much energy are from yesterday.

Perhaps you mean

"Houses using more energy are from yesterday," as in

"Your house is so yesterday."

Only houses producing energy are a secure investment for the coming years.

Would that it were so! (Does German have a "hortatory subjunctive" tense?)

Highly insulated houses with u=0,1 (Watt per squaremeter degree Celsius)

Are you sure? That's 0.1W/C-10.76ft^2 = 9.3 mW/C-ft^2, or 5.2 mW/F-ft^2, or
0.0176 Btu/h-F-ft^2, or 42 Btu/h-F for a 2400 ft^2 house, about ten times
less than a good US house, so we could keep it 70 F indoors on a 30 F day
with 1691 Btu/h, zb 5 300 Btu/h people and a 100 Btu/h dog... They would
need about 75 cfm of fresh air, which would add about 75 Btu/h-F (22 W/C)
to the house thermal conductance, if outdoor air just leaked through the
house, so maybe these houses have good air-air heat exchangers?

A 40'x60'x8' 2400 ft^2 house with 8% of the floorspace as US R4 windows
would have 192ft^2/R4 = 48 Btu/h-F of conductance for the windows alone,
so maybe these houses have no windows? R8 windows would leave 42-24 = 18
Btu/h-F for 1408 ft^2 of walls and 2400 ft^2 of ceiling, which would need
a US R-value of (1408+2400)/18 = 211, eg 42" (1,07 m) of Styrofoam board
insulation... (Steve Spence might say stone would work better

Nick

 

[Derek Broughton]

Are you sure? That's 0.1W/C-10.76ft^2 = 9.3 mW/C-ft^2, or 5.2 mW/F-ft^2,
or 0.0176 Btu/h-F-ft^2, or 42 Btu/h-F for a 2400 ft^2 house, about ten
times less than a good US house,

Is 10% of wasteful US practice _really_ so hard to believe?

the house, so maybe these houses have good air-air heat exchangers?

It's one of the requirements.

A 40'x60'x8' 2400 ft^2 house with 8% of the floorspace as US R4 windows

Do you have a clue how many German homes would be even _close_ to 2400
sq.ft.?

 

[Roland Mösl]

http://live.pege.org/2005-plus-energy-village

Does that calculation include the energy cooking and
heating the house and water for showers, or is there
a big propane tank?

For electric power, warm water, heating the houses

Pay no attention to the big propane tank?

Today died in Austria a 18 year old by sniffing Propan gas.
So be carefully with Your addiction

Perhaps you mean

"Houses using more energy are from yesterday," as in

"Your house is so yesterday."
years.

Would that it were so! (Does German have a "hortatory subjunctive" tense?)


Are you sure?

I just searched by Google in an other discussion.
I discovered how to convert metric U values to US R values

I just tried to find an R to U calculator

R = 1/U.
Rmetric = Rus/5.68. Umetric = 5.68/Rus

So u=0,1 equals to R=56,8

 

[[email protected]]

R = 1/U.
Rmetric = Rus/5.68. Umetric = 5.68/Rus

So u=0,1 equals to R=56,8

That's more reasonable. Only 11 inches (29 cm) of foamboard.
I was thinking "W/C per square meter of floorspace," and you
may have meant "W/C per square meter of walls and ceilings."

Nick

 

[Martin Riddle]

Looks a little 'Cheesy' for a German developement. The solar panels are impressive tho.

 

[Roland Mösl]

Highly insulated houses with u=0,1 (Watt per squaremeter degree Celsius)

Is 10% of wasteful US practice _really_ so hard to believe?

Does this mean, US houses have u=1 W/m²/k
or R=5,68 US system ?!?

Is it now very uncomfortable to live in houses like this?
Dust distributed by the very hot heaters,
Cold wall surfaces because to small insulation.
Sounds like buildings making people sick.

To built houses like this is in Germany and Austria illegal.

R=56,8 is top, but when You visit one of the ready made houses
sales centers, R=33 to R=40 is now standard at new houses.

It's one of the requirements.

It's like asking "And the car has breaks at all 4 wheels?" ;-)

Do you have a clue how many German homes would be even _close_ to 2400
sq.ft.?

I would quess only 5% of one family houses are in this size.
Common is 1300 to 1700 sq.ft

 

[[email protected]]

Does this mean, US houses have u=1 W/m²/k or R=5,68 US system ?!?

No. That calc assumed 0.1 W/m^2K of floorspace vs wallspace.

R=56,8 is top, but when You visit one of the ready made houses
sales centers, R=33 to R=40 is now standard at new houses.

That's about the same in the US.

I would quess only 5% of one family houses are in this size.
Common is 1300 to 1700 sq.ft

I think they are getting larger, but here are some 1992 statistics:

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-4908.html

In 1992 united Germany had approximately 34.5 million dwellings with 149
million rooms, for a total of 2.8 billion square meters of living space.
Dwellings in the west were larger than those in the east. In 1992 dwellings
in the old Länder had an average floor space of 82.7 square meters for an
average of 35.1 square meters per person, compared with 64.5 square meters
and an average of 29.0 square meters per person in the new Länder.

82.7x10.76 = 890 ft^2 per house, about 3X smaller than an average US house.

Nick

 

[Roland Mösl]

the house, so maybe these houses have good air-air heat exchangers?

I sure hope not

I'd prefer brakes )))

Seems the words, where I am shure to know it, are the most dangerouse words

 

[Derek Broughton]

No. That calc assumed 0.1 W/m^2K of floorspace vs wallspace.


That's about the same in the US.

Only in the roof. I've seen no indication that standard walls are any more
than the R20 we use in Canada. Since R12 was standard until quite
recently, I wouldn't have much trouble believing an American R5.68 average
- there's a whole lot of completely uninsulated homes in the South.

I think they are getting larger, but here are some 1992 statistics:

You're probably right...

82.7x10.76 = 890 ft^2 per house, about 3X smaller than an average US
house.

That's what I would have thought. You don't see many monster homes over
there that don't have turrets & battlements

 

[H. Dziardziel]

Does this mean, US houses have u=1 W/m²/k
or R=5,68 US system ?!?

Is it now very uncomfortable to live in houses like this?
Dust distributed by the very hot heaters,
Cold wall surfaces because to small insulation.
Sounds like buildings making people sick.

To built houses like this is in Germany and Austria illegal.

R=56,8 is top, but when You visit one of the ready made houses
sales centers, R=33 to R=40 is now standard at new houses.


It's like asking "And the car has breaks at all 4 wheels?" ;-)


I would quess only 5% of one family houses are in this size.
Common is 1300 to 1700 sq.ft

Hi Roland, what is the buying subsidy, battery maintenace,
replacement estimate including recycling,, and grid return
estimate? How many days off batteries since Freiburg is a
"sunny" city (taken from Freiburg city's site)?

Since it seems to be a high tech university-research "town".
how do its building etc.,costs and subsidies compare, on average,
to the rest of Germany?. What is the building life? It doesn't
look very permanent nor a true family home.
Regards.

 

[Roland Mösl]

Hi Roland, what is the buying subsidy, battery maintenace,

It's all grid connected.
Give to the grid, take from the grid

Since it seems to be a high tech university-research "town".
how do its building etc.,costs and subsidies compare, on average,
to the rest of Germany?

I will soon interview the architect for more details