Planned Obselescence....A Good Thing?

[Rod Speed]

"The environment is completely irrelevant. Discarded
electronic devices are a trivial part of the total waste and
manufacturing stream and the environmental downsides
are back in china with the manufacturing anyway. "

Wrong...it is one of the worst.

Pigs arse it is.

As I said, the industry will need to deal with it.

Nope, nothing will change, you watch.

 

[Rod Speed]

I've seen Chinese made devices such as flashlights that won't take Chinese made batteries as they
are too long!

Just another example of pathetic quality control.

 

[b]

Ach, so? I'll have to look farther into this. I'd heard some mumblings
about CD and DVD not being as lasting a storage method as they were
first thought to be.

I have many cd-rs, burned in 2000 from old Lps and tapes, which are now
unreadable. Good thing I kept the originals....not a single cassette or
record, even those from the 60s, has deteriorated. The only problems I
have ever had with any media were with some reel to reels which
degraded, appartenly with a binder made from whale oil, roughly vintage
1975-1980 .
-B.

 

[Rod Speed]

You haven't dealt with the finance people I have....they are.

No they arent.

Cost point is EVERYTHING

You aint established that making the card pockets too
small to take cards does a damned thing to the cost point.

In fact it fucks it completely because the vast bulk of purchasers
of that wallet would just return it for a full refund.

(it determines the CEO's bonus)

No it doesnt when the vast bulk of purchasers
of that wallet would just return it for a full refund.

And chinese manufacturing operations dont work like that anyway.

so any and all decisions revolve around it.

Pity that such pathetic quality control will just see operations
that are considering buying their products tell them to shove
their products where the sun dont shine.

Companies will gladly produce junk if the consumer will buy it...and they do.

No they dont with wallets where the cards dont fit the card slots.

Again, reference Walmart and their success selling crap.

They dont sell wallets where the cards wont fit the card slots for long.

Oh...did I mention that Walmart is the nation's largest seller of electronics.

Pity we happened to be discussing wallets which wont accept cards or notes either.

 

[Rod Speed]

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

Just not designed for american sized money and cards.

Credit cards are the same size world wide.

Would likely hold the currency of half the world
with no problem. Ditto for the cards?? Mabee.

Nope, just plain wrong when the card pockets are just a little too tight.

Got to be yet another example of pathetic chinese quality control.

Part of the "global economy".
Nope.

ANd you can't buy an american made leather wallet any more - at
least I haven't seen Canadian or American made ones in over 5 years.

You can still buy plenty that will take credit cards and american currency fine.

 

[Rod Speed]

Sorry to disappoint you Rod

You never dissappoint me, you can be relied
on to never be able to get a damned thing right.

but I do just as Ig does....Walmart gets as
little of my money as I can make happen.

Our opinion is shared by many others....

Clearly not most given that its by far
the biggest retailler in the entire world.

been paying attention to the decline of Walmart's profits lately?

What matters is their turnover. And its STILL
by far the biggest retailler in the entire world.

Be sure to look when you walk by Walmart headquarters....
I wouldn't want you to get hit by a falling executive.

Wont happen either. You cant open the windows.

 

[Rod Speed]

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

BS.

We'll see...

When we're finished with food it is "totally recycled"

Pity about the packaging, the processing, the
transport of the food, the wastage, etc etc etc.

Yes, there is the transportation, but disposal of the
end of life product is not a terribly serious issue.

Pity about the packaging which is.

With cars, they are over 95% recycleable - and they ARE recycled.

Pity about the environmental effect of their use before they are discarded.

Tires are aproblem, but advances are being made there.

With electronics, it all ends up in landfill.

Its a tiny part of any landfill.

There is SOME progress being made - but the imposition
of a $10 disposal fee at the consumer level has ended up
with all kinds of monitors etc being dumped beside the road.

Just another terminal stupidity that only 'environmentalist' could come up with.

The clowns that decide policy at our landfill have been stupid
enough to charge fees for everything dumped there, and then
whine about those who dump it outside their landfill.

Overall, significantly less than FIVE PERCENT of all consumer
electronics devices are recycled, or properly disposed of.

Depends entirely on how you define 'properly disposed of'

It does no harm in landfill, particularly if you exclude CRTs
which are mostly disappearing from the market now anyway.

Less than ONE PERCENT of replaceable, non
rechargeable batteries are responsibly disposed of.

And landfills work fine anyway.

Well over NINETY PERCENT of automotive
batteries are recycles and responsibly disposed of.

Only part of them is ever recycled.

 

[Rod Speed]

Wrong approach.
Yep.

Pay the consumer $10 for proper disposal and
the roadside dumping will disappear over night.

Yep, there will always be some collecting what gets dumped for the $10.

As I said, the disposal is being charged against the consumer
at the end of life of the product...in time the politicians will get
it right and charge for it at the beginning of the product sale.

Wont change a damned thing, they'll just pay that charge and they
lose it up front instead of when it should be slugged, on disposal.

 

[Rod Speed]

Sorry but I did not mention what education
background I have....none of your business. ;<)

The cost of handling a product would be factored into the original
sale price...and the company producing it would be liable for disposal.

And they would just add that to the price of the item.

And yeah...I know you don't like that answer...

No one with a clue does.

The most that can make sense is to charge the consumer at the time
they buy a new tire for the cost of disposal of the one it replaces.

no one including Corporate America likes being held accountable for their actions.

Just another of your silly little fantasys.

 

[Rod Speed]

Same thing with CD ROM drives.
I sold many of the first CD ROM drives sold in Canada. We are talking
1985 ish. That's TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO. Some of those drives are still
fully functional.
Today's crop don't last 5 years (actually, that's YESTERDAY's crop.)

Bullshit. Have fun explaining mine that have.

I'm replacing 2 year old "brand name" CD drives quite regularly.

Happened 25 years ago too.

 

[Rod Speed]

I agree...I see it all the time.

The funny thing is people in the know are looking for the old CD
drives because of their reliability.

Wrong again, few of them will read CDRWs for starters.

Unfortunately that means a company will not sell a new unit. sob..sob

Another silly fantasy when all new PCs come with one.

 

[Rod Speed]

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

Oil change every 1500 miles
Adjust valves every 6000 miles.

That aint constant maintenance, just a higher frequency periodic maintenance.

Decarbonize every 25000 miles OR
Valve job every 30,000 miles.
Rings and bearings at about 50,000 miles.

How odd that I never needed to do any
of that in any car I had of that vintage.

Spark plugs and points every 12000 miles.
Adjust timing and carb about the same time.

Nothing even remotely resembling anything like 'constant maintenance'

rebuild the carb every 30,000 miles or 3 years.

How odd that I never needed to do any
of that in any car I had of that vintage.

Adjust the choke twice a year (if in cold winter areas)

How odd that I never needed to do any
of that in any car I had of that vintage.

replace generator brushes every 12000 miles.
Replace engine main seals every 50,000 miles
Replace ball joints and shocks every 2 years

How odd that I never needed to do any
of that in any car I had of that vintage.

rebuild brake cyls every 3 years.

How odd that I never needed to do any
of that in any car I had of that vintage.

replace exhaust aprox every 18 months.

Nothing even remotely resembling anything like 'constant maintenance'

replace rad hoses and fan belts roughly every 2 years.

How odd that I never needed to do any of that in any
car I had of that vintage at anything like that rate.

If the body lasted five years without rust-through you were
doing well indeed. (here in the salty great white north)

A paint job was good for about 5 years,

Nothing even remotely resembling anything like 'constant maintenance'

and a ten year old car was JUNK.

How odd that my last one lasted 35 years fine. And so
did the one before that too, and the one before that too.

A car with 100,000 miles on it was a rarity (160,000 km)

Only in the stupid north american market.

Today 240,000 km is "nicely broken in" and 350,000km is not
out of the ordinary. - and that's without even opening the engine
- all the original factory gaskes/sealant still in place in many cases.

That happened with the last two I had that lasted 35 years fine.
And the second last one wasnt owned by me for that 35 years obviously.

Of course, there are MANY that never make it, due to abuse, neglect,
poor design - but a VERY FEW back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s made
100,000 miles without some MAJOR repair, and a LOT of maintenance.

Have fun explaining mine which did that fine.

Leaded fuel was a large part of the cause, engine-wise.

Pity thats what mine used.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

you have missed the real point here.
Nope.

You are also very rude.

You get to like that or lump it.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

And anyone with a clue just buys a dedicated hardware router etc.

How do you program a dedicated router to run a 30 year old industrial
process? How do you use it to control a communications system aboard
the ISS?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

How do you program a dedicated router to run a 30 year old industrial process?

That was a comment on the last bit, and those silly
enough to use one of those dinosaurs as a router etc.

Just as true of a print server.

In spades with a digital answering machine which is best
multitasked on something other than one of those dinosaurs.

If you want to run a 30 year old industrial process, you are
better off with something a lot better than one of those dinosaurs.

How do you use it to control a communications system aboard the ISS?

Only a fool would use one of those dinosaurs for that.

 

[SMS]

The same logic is driving the production of hybrid cars that are less
fuel efficient than some non-hybrid cars. When the battery pack dies in
8-10 years, the car will be junk (non-economic to repair), clearing the
way for more new car sales.

What's driving the production of hybrid cars is government policy. Tax
credits, and allowing hybrids to use carpool lanes is a powerful
incentive. Some people buy them because of a belief that they pollute
less, though in reality this is not the case.

I don't think that anyone buys a hybrid thinking that they're going to
save money on fuel, versus the extra initial cost, and shorter service life.

 

[SMS]

In my opinon...no.

I intentionally try to have older appliances, vehicles, machines to
lower repair costs and keep overall ownership cost to a minimum.

You can still buy high quality, repairable appliances, but you have to
buy commercial models, which have a much higher initial cost, and cannot
be purchased at normal retail stores.

I've bought commercial laundry machines for a rental property, and later
for my own house, because they are built much, much better, and are very
repairable if they ever do break (but unlikely to ever break under
household use). They cost about twice as much as a low-end consumer
machine and most people would not know how to acquire them. Since
laundry-mat owners do their own repairs, there is no labor warranty, but
they have a three year parts warranty. Excellent repair manuals are
available from the manufacturer.

You can buy restaurant quality small appliances that will last forever
under household use, but most people don't want to spend $400 on a two
slice toaster, they'd rather buy a new $20 toaster ever few years.

Commercial vacuum cleaners are actually a good deal because the
consumer-grade vacuum cleaners are extremely poorly constructed. But too
many people select a vacuum based on how much current the motor draws,
and how many buttons and attachments it has, instead of how well it
cleans and how long it will last.

 

[Rod Speed]

Ecnerwal wrote

What's driving the production of hybrid cars is government policy.
Nope.

Tax credits, and allowing hybrids to use carpool lanes is a powerful incentive.

Have fun explaining how they do just as well where those arent provided.

Some people buy them because of a belief that they pollute less, though in reality this is not the
case.

Most people do, actually.

I don't think that anyone buys a hybrid thinking that they're going to save money on fuel,

Plenty do.

versus the extra initial cost,

Plenty are too stupid to even consider that.

and shorter service life.

And dont care about that because they turn their cars over
at a rate that makes that completely irrelevant to them.

 

[Alex]

I was buying a vacuum cleaner from a local vacuum cleaner repair guy and while he was
complaining about quality of modern he showed me a vacuum cleaner that looked like it
was from from 50s or 60s that he was repairing(replacing a motor) He has a contract with
a airline to service vacuum cleaners that are used to vacuum airplane salons. These
vacuum cleaners work 24/7 for 50 years and all they need a minor service and motor
replaced every so many years.

 

[Ignoramus18435]

Commercial vacuum cleaners are actually a good deal because the
consumer-grade vacuum cleaners are extremely poorly constructed. But too
many people select a vacuum based on how much current the motor draws,
and how many buttons and attachments it has, instead of how well it
cleans and how long it will last.

Would you recommend a particular commercial vacuum cleaner?