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pir false alarms

Hi,

we have an alarm for 2,5 years now. It is a Rokonet system. The PIR
detector's used are Pyronix Magnum Ultra.

It worked fine for more than 2 years, but last summer we had false
alarms almost once per week. Always on the same sensor. Sensor was
replaced by the installer, but next night there was again a false
alarm.

The Pir is now replaced by a dual detector, and this detector seems to
work well.

The next week we had false alarms with both the two other PIR's. So
they are also replaces by dual's.

Now it has worked fine for 3 months. But the installer sends us a bill
for the replacement of the first detector. And i think another bill for
the two others will follow. Together this is the 25% of the price of
the system! I do not think this is normal after 2,5 years. (The
warranty of the system is 1 year, but on the pyronix site i read the
pir detectors come with 5 years of warranty)


I want to argue with the installer but first i want to learn more about
the problem. So i have some questions:

Is it possible that a fly triggers the pir?
Can this problem be due to bad adjustment of the pir or the use of the
wrong lenses?
Can the reason be in the rokonet system instead of in the PIR's?
Any other ideas???


Thanks in advance...
Joble
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Now it has worked fine for 3 months. But theel
installer sends us a bill for the replacement of
the first detector. And i think another bill for
the two others will follow. Together this is the
25% of the price of the system! I do not think
this is normal after 2,5 years. (The warranty
of the system is 1 year, but on the pyronix site
i read the pir detectors come with 5 years of
warranty)

It is not "normal" for all three PIR detectors to fail after a short time.
Flies rarely cause problems. A spider could be the culprit in some
circumstances, but rarely in 3 separate detectors. However, the real
problem here is that the installer should have honored the warranty.
Can the reason be in the rokonet system instead of in the PIR's?

It could be. Were these wired or wireless snsors? Are there other sensors
in the system?
Any other ideas???

Yes. Refuse to pay for replacement of merchandise which is still under
warranty. Tell the installer tht if he insists on payment you will switch
to another alarm company.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

========================>
Bass Home Electronics
Online DIY Alarm & Automation Store
941-866-1100
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
=========================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass wrote:

It is not "normal" for all three PIR detectors to fail after a short time.
Flies rarely cause problems. A spider could be the culprit in some
circumstances, but rarely in 3 separate detectors. However, the real
problem here is that the installer should have honored the warranty.

Which "warranty"? If the "installer honoured the warranty", he would
have replaced the sensors with exactly the same units that malfunctioned
(as the manufacturer would honour the warranty to the Dealer). He would
still have charged for the service call. The customer would then be
facing another false alarm problem two and a half years down the road.
It could be. Were these wired or wireless snsors? Are there other sensors
in the system?

He's provided the make and model number of the detectors.

Yes. Refuse to pay for replacement of merchandise which is still under
warranty. Tell the installer tht if he insists on payment you will switch
to another alarm company.

You're an idiot, Bass. The warranty in this instance applies to the
original equipment which was upgraded to dual-tecs (and not the labour).
Replacing the original equipment is not an option if (as it's already
demonstrated) it's subject to false alarms after 2 and a half years.
The customer may be able to pursue a warranty claim against the cost of
the dual-tecs (you have to keep in mind they're more expensive than the
units that were first installed). This will mean a "credit" against the
cost of the dual-tecs. Being confrontational with his dealer is NOT
going to solve his problem. He will still be subject to the terms of
his contract and the dealer's installation warranty (which requires him
to pay for non-warranty or out-of-warranty service and is entirely
separate from the manufacturer's warranty).

Which brings up a valid question. What would you do in this instance?
Let's say this customer purchased the PIR's from you and they all
started falsing after two and a half years. What would he have to do to
obtain "warranty service" from you? And what would you provide in the
way of "service" (that is if the customer can actually contact you)?
What will this "warranty service" cost him? Will he have to pay for
shipping? Would he have to return the units in their original packaging
(even after two and a half years), or would you just send him out
replacement PIR's and credit him the cost of units that were falsing?
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
It is not "normal" for all three PIR detectors to fail after a short time.
Flies rarely cause problems. A spider could be the culprit in some
circumstances, but rarely in 3 separate detectors. However, the real
problem here is that the installer should have honored the warranty.


It could be. Were these wired or wireless snsors? Are there other sensors
in the system?


Yes. Refuse to pay for replacement of merchandise which is still under
warranty. Tell the installer tht if he insists on payment you will switch
to another alarm company.
You're wrong again, as usual.

The warranty from the dealer is one year.
The client is likely under contract with the alarm company.
The factory warranty does not include shipping, and labor and besides,
why would the client want the same units back if they're causing a
problem?

Must be time for you to go for another treatment.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

we have an alarm for 2,5 years now. It is a Rokonet system. The PIR
detector's used are Pyronix Magnum Ultra.

It worked fine for more than 2 years, but last summer we had false
alarms almost once per week. Always on the same sensor. Sensor was
replaced by the installer, but next night there was again a false
alarm.

The Pir is now replaced by a dual detector, and this detector seems to
work well.

The next week we had false alarms with both the two other PIR's. So
they are also replaces by dual's.

Now it has worked fine for 3 months. But the installer sends us a bill
for the replacement of the first detector. And i think another bill for
the two others will follow. Together this is the 25% of the price of
the system! I do not think this is normal after 2,5 years. (The
warranty of the system is 1 year, but on the pyronix site i read the
pir detectors come with 5 years of warranty)


I want to argue with the installer but first i want to learn more about
the problem. So i have some questions:

Is it possible that a fly triggers the pir?
Can this problem be due to bad adjustment of the pir or the use of the
wrong lenses?
Can the reason be in the rokonet system instead of in the PIR's?
Any other ideas???


Thanks in advance...

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet.

Strong radio frequency signals can sometime cause sensors to trip. Do
you have any RF souces in your home or do some neighbors? Taxi cabs,
police cars etc can sometimes cause problems.

See if you can figure out when ( time of the year) (time of the day)
false alarms occured. If you've changed window coverings, sometimes the
angle of the sun at certain times of the year can shine directly into
motion detectors ..... reflect off of objects in a room ..... heat up
glass which can rapidly cool ....... or if you've changed houshold
heating system or moved objects that now allow hot air to flow past the
PIR's.

Obviously, dual technology sensors will help reduce these things from
affecting sensors.
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Which brings up a valid question. What would you do in this instance?
Let's say this customer purchased the PIR's from you and they all
started falsing after two and a half years. What would he have to do to
obtain "warranty service" from you? And what would you provide in the
way of "service" (that is if the customer can actually contact you)?
What will this "warranty service" cost him? Will he have to pay for
shipping? Would he have to return the units in their original packaging
(even after two and a half years), or would you just send him out
replacement PIR's and credit him the cost of units that were falsing?


You really don't want to know. If you read his "warranty" page, it's
"chaulker-block full" of conditions and provisos. The customer will have to
pay to ship the defective product back, but not to Bass. It has to go back
to the originating drop-shipper. It's their "call" as to whether-or-not it
goes to the manufacturer from there. I imagine that rarely happens as "end
users" (DIY) aren't qualified installers (in most instances). If they
accidentally hook up a keypad or detector Bass-ackwards all bets are off,
where-as if an installer does, he's gotta dig up a spare from his own
company's stock and the company has to take the "hit". The other thing is
that if the DIY hooks up any device to power, it's ineligible for return
(his thirty day money back "no hassle" guarantee is also "chaulker-block
full" of conditions). If you order the wrong cable (for instance), or the
wrong camera, lens, or commercial fire alarm component, you're "SOL" (and
stuck with it). I suppose you could try re-selling it on "eBay".

Have you seen his latest BBB report? Twenty-five complaints in three years
and I'll bet an equal number have dropped off due to report aging.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
A couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet.

Strong radio frequency signals can sometime cause sensors to trip. Do
you have any RF souces in your home or do some neighbors? Taxi cabs,
police cars etc can sometimes cause problems.

This was along the lines of my first thought: if the original sensor was swapped
out, even with an identical one, and the problem repeated within the same day,
then the problem is clearly not with the sensor itself - there's either a wiring
fault, or the "brain" of the alarm is failing.

I didn't think of RFI, but that would certainly explain the problem occuring in
other sensors/zones. One test I would have performed as well would have been to
leave the first offending line with NO sensor on it for a couple days to see if
that line triggers again (which of course, would determine or rule a wiring or
brain fault).
See if you can figure out when ( time of the year) (time of the day)
false alarms occured. If you've changed window coverings, sometimes the
angle of the sun at certain times of the year can shine directly into
motion detectors ..... reflect off of objects in a room ..... heat up
glass which can rapidly cool ....... or if you've changed houshold
heating system or moved objects that now allow hot air to flow past the
PIR's.

Seconded as well. Unfortunately the OP doesn't mention the relative positions
of the three sensors to each other - are they in different rooms, on different
floors, etc.? Is this a home, an office area, a warehouse? More details like
this would help the "remote troubleshooting".
Obviously, dual technology sensors will help reduce these things from
affecting sensors.

There is that as well.

Bottom line, from what we're told here, it sounds like the "installer" that put
in the new sensors really didn't do very thorough troubleshooting - the failure
on the other sensors after replacing the first should have been an indication
right away that something else was wrong. Who knows, maybe the chance to sell
the OP his new "fancy" sensors was incentive not to dig too deeply into the real
cause of the problem.

I hate to agree with Bass here, but I wouldn't pay the installer either - he
hasn't solved the problem, he's just sold the OP snake oil.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
See if you can figure out when ( time of the
year) (time of the day) false alarms occured.
If you've changed window coverings,
sometimes the angle of the sun at certain
times of the year can shine directly into
motion detectors .....

That's a valid consideration in many cases. However, with 3 separate detectors falsing, it's not very likely. Possible, but not
likely.
or if you've changed houshold heating system
or moved objects that now allow hot air to flow
past the PIR's.

Although air from the HVAC system can cause a light weight object (loose paper or one of those infamous balloons) to move,
triggering a PIR, it's not likely to have caused problems with three separate PIRs. Also, there's a commonly held misconception
about PIRs. Warm or cool air moving past the detectors won't trip them. If the air is actually hitting the detector it can
sometimes trigger a false alarm. But the detector can't "see" air moving across in front of it.

Because this system was in place for more than one year without problems and because there are problems in three separate zones, I
doubt that the HVAC system is at fault. Given the information available, the most likely cause would be a bad panel or a bad RF
receiver (if the detectors happen to be wireless).

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
could also be aux power related...and mess of other things.


| Jim wrote:
| > [email protected] wrote:
| >
| >>Hi,
| >>
| >>we have an alarm for 2,5 years now. It is a Rokonet system. The PIR
| >>detector's used are Pyronix Magnum Ultra.
| >>
| >>It worked fine for more than 2 years, but last summer we had false
| >>alarms almost once per week. Always on the same sensor. Sensor was
| >>replaced by the installer, but next night there was again a false
| >>alarm.
| >>
| >>The Pir is now replaced by a dual detector, and this detector seems to
| >>work well.
| >>
| >>The next week we had false alarms with both the two other PIR's. So
| >>they are also replaces by dual's.
| >>
| >>Now it has worked fine for 3 months. But the installer sends us a bill
| >>for the replacement of the first detector. And i think another bill for
| >>the two others will follow. Together this is the 25% of the price of
| >>the system! I do not think this is normal after 2,5 years. (The
| >>warranty of the system is 1 year, but on the pyronix site i read the
| >>pir detectors come with 5 years of warranty)
| >>
| >>
| >>I want to argue with the installer but first i want to learn more about
| >>the problem. So i have some questions:
| >>
| >>Is it possible that a fly triggers the pir?
| >>Can this problem be due to bad adjustment of the pir or the use of the
| >>wrong lenses?
| >>Can the reason be in the rokonet system instead of in the PIR's?
| >>Any other ideas???
| >>
| >>
| >>Thanks in advance...
| >
| >
| > A couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet.
| >
| > Strong radio frequency signals can sometime cause sensors to trip. Do
| > you have any RF souces in your home or do some neighbors? Taxi cabs,
| > police cars etc can sometimes cause problems.
|
| This was along the lines of my first thought: if the original sensor was
swapped
| out, even with an identical one, and the problem repeated within the same
day,
| then the problem is clearly not with the sensor itself - there's either a
wiring
| fault, or the "brain" of the alarm is failing.
|
| I didn't think of RFI, but that would certainly explain the problem
occuring in
| other sensors/zones. One test I would have performed as well would have
been to
| leave the first offending line with NO sensor on it for a couple days to
see if
| that line triggers again (which of course, would determine or rule a
wiring or
| brain fault).
|
| > See if you can figure out when ( time of the year) (time of the day)
| > false alarms occured. If you've changed window coverings, sometimes the
| > angle of the sun at certain times of the year can shine directly into
| > motion detectors ..... reflect off of objects in a room ..... heat up
| > glass which can rapidly cool ....... or if you've changed houshold
| > heating system or moved objects that now allow hot air to flow past the
| > PIR's.
|
| Seconded as well. Unfortunately the OP doesn't mention the relative
positions
| of the three sensors to each other - are they in different rooms, on
different
| floors, etc.? Is this a home, an office area, a warehouse? More details
like
| this would help the "remote troubleshooting".
|
| > Obviously, dual technology sensors will help reduce these things from
| > affecting sensors.
|
| There is that as well.
|
| Bottom line, from what we're told here, it sounds like the "installer"
that put
| in the new sensors really didn't do very thorough troubleshooting - the
failure
| on the other sensors after replacing the first should have been an
indication
| right away that something else was wrong. Who knows, maybe the chance to
sell
| the OP his new "fancy" sensors was incentive not to dig too deeply into
the real
| cause of the problem.
|
| I hate to agree with Bass here, but I wouldn't pay the installer either -
he
| hasn't solved the problem, he's just sold the OP snake oil.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
That's a valid consideration in many cases. However, with 3 separate detectors falsing, it's not very likely. Possible, but not
likely.

Why don't you tell us exactly where the three motion detectors are
mounted? Which direction are they facing? What part of the room are
they mounted?

Hmmmm Don't know? Then your wrong in your biased assumption.


Although air from the HVAC system can cause a light weight object (loose paper or one of those infamous balloons) to move,
triggering a PIR, it's not likely to have caused problems with three separate PIRs.

Why don't you tell us exactly where the three motion detectors are
mounted? Which direction are they facing? What part of the room are
they mounted?

Hmmmm Don't know? Then your wrong in your biased assumption.

Also, there's a commonly held misconception
about PIRs. Warm or cool air moving past the detectors won't trip them. If the air is actually hitting the detector it can
sometimes trigger a false alarm. But the detector can't "see" air moving across in front of it.

Which proves that you obvioulsy have no experience what-so-ever
installing alarm systems.

In a cool room, when heat is quickly released in front of a Passive
infrared motion detector, it will likely trip. In the same manner, when
window glass, heated by the sun on a hot day, is rapidly cooled by fast
moving clouds, or a lawnsprinkler system, it can trip a PIR. An
electric heater, starting up in range of a PIR, will trip the unit. And
in all of these instances, there is no heat "hitting" the PIR. I know
because I actually install alarm systems for a living for over 36years.
When is the last time you actually installed anything having to do with
alarm systems? 10 years? 15? Why don't you sit down, shut up. Stop
trolling and go get another treatment, for as much good it will do you.

Because this system was in place for more than one year without problems and because there are problems in three separate zones, I
doubt that the HVAC system is at fault.

Please tell us how you know if there was or wasn't an HVAC system
installed recently or a change in heating systems. You don't know and
neither do I. .... it's simply a possible cause of the problem.

Given the information available, the most likely cause would be a bad panel or a bad RF
receiver (if the detectors happen to be wireless).

What an idiot you are.

If it was the panel or a reciever ......tell us ...... why is it that
the dual tech motions cured the problem?
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Why don't you tell us exactly where the three motion detectors are
mounted? Which direction are they facing? What part of the room are
they mounted?

Hmmmm Don't know? Then your wrong in your biased assumption.

Far be it from me to jump to Bass's defence, but Jim, you're just being an ass.

Bass is correct: with three different sensors falsing, unless they're all
mounted very close together, a change of window coverings, HVAC system, etc.
are, in fact, are not a LIKELY cause.

Possible, yes; likely, no. That's all he said.
What an idiot you are.

If it was the panel or a reciever ......tell us ...... why is it that
the dual tech motions cured the problem?

We don't know that they've CURED the problem... they may have simply masked a
symptom. From the OP's story, we don't evne know how long they've been in, let
alone how long they'll keep working properly, or if the problem will re-appear.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
FIRETEK said:
You really don't want to know. If you read his "warranty" page, it's
"chaulker-block full" of conditions and provisos. The customer will have to
pay to ship the defective product back, but not to Bass. It has to go back
to the originating drop-shipper. It's their "call" as to whether-or-not it
goes to the manufacturer from there. I imagine that rarely happens as "end
users" (DIY) aren't qualified installers (in most instances). If they
accidentally hook up a keypad or detector Bass-ackwards all bets are off,
where-as if an installer does, he's gotta dig up a spare from his own
company's stock and the company has to take the "hit". The other thing is
that if the DIY hooks up any device to power, it's ineligible for return
(his thirty day money back "no hassle" guarantee is also "chaulker-block
full" of conditions). If you order the wrong cable (for instance), or the
wrong camera, lens, or commercial fire alarm component, you're "SOL" (and
stuck with it). I suppose you could try re-selling it on "eBay".


Interesting. I did read up on the warranty links you sent me, thanks.
I have a feeling that a number of the complaints filed against Bass may
have to do with the fact that his customers don't read well (and if
that's the case, how they expect to be able to install and program a
panel like "Napco", "Ademco", or "DSC" is beyond me). For one thing,
the only thing Bass has demonstrated any real expertise in, is bullshitting.

Have you seen his latest BBB report? Twenty-five complaints in three years
and I'll bet an equal number have dropped off due to report aging.


I used to keep track, but I lost interest.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Far be it from me to jump to Bass's defence, but Jim, you're just being an ass.

Matt, you're absoluetly right.

Let it be far FAR from you to jump to this fucking assholes defense.

As far as me acting like an ass, I think that has already been
determined.
If you've got any issues with what I do, you'd damn well better have
issues with
that fat dying son of a bitch too who has acted like an asshole in
Usenet for years
and consider why I treat him like the picece of shit he is.

You might also consider that there was no reason for him to post his
picayune
comments in response to my well intentioned post to begin with and
likewise
the same goes for you.


Oh yes, I almost forgot to mention. You don't run things here. If you
don't like what goes on
here, you're welcome to leave. You're also welcome to thank Bass for
that attitude too.
If he can **** up this Newsgroup, so can anyone ................ aint
that a bitch...........
Bass is correct: with three different sensors falsing, unless they're all
mounted very close together, a change of window coverings, HVAC system, etc.
are, in fact, are not a LIKELY cause.

Possible, yes; likely, no. That's all he said.


Consider Matt .................... that all I was saying is that if the
OP changed window
coverings in his home ........... HIS ENTIRE HOME .............. why
wouldn't it be likely,
possible, plausable, reasonable, conceivable to think that all three
motion
detectors, maybe, might, could be, would be............... affected?

GET IT?

We don't know that they've CURED the problem... they may have simply masked a
symptom. From the OP's story, we don't evne know how long they've been in, let
alone how long they'll keep working properly, or if the problem will re-appear.

Yeah .... for all we know in 5 or 10 years, it could show up again ....
or even tomorrow.
But that has no bearing, what-so-ever on the fact that changing the
detectors wouldn't
have made any difference if there was a bad receiver or panel.
GET IT?


Jeeeeeeze, Matt, If you're going to pick something to defend, that the
asshole said, at least
pick something plausable. I didn't see you defending his erroneous
postulation that
a PIR will not trip if the air temperature within it's range changes
rapidly.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Matt, you're absoluetly right.

Let it be far FAR from you to jump to this fucking assholes defense.

As far as me acting like an ass, I think that has already been
determined.
If you've got any issues with what I do, you'd damn well better have
issues with
that fat dying son of a bitch too who has acted like an asshole in
Usenet for years
and consider why I treat him like the picece of shit he is.

You might also consider that there was no reason for him to post his
picayune
comments in response to my well intentioned post to begin with and
likewise
the same goes for you.


Oh yes, I almost forgot to mention. You don't run things here. If you
don't like what goes on
here, you're welcome to leave. You're also welcome to thank Bass for
that attitude too.
If he can **** up this Newsgroup, so can anyone ................ aint
that a bitch...........





Consider Matt .................... that all I was saying is that if the
OP changed window
coverings in his home ........... HIS ENTIRE HOME .............. why
wouldn't it be likely,
possible, plausable, reasonable, conceivable to think that all three
motion
detectors, maybe, might, could be, would be............... affected?

GET IT?





Yeah .... for all we know in 5 or 10 years, it could show up again ....
or even tomorrow.
But that has no bearing, what-so-ever on the fact that changing the
detectors wouldn't
have made any difference if there was a bad receiver or panel.
GET IT?


Jeeeeeeze, Matt, If you're going to pick something to defend, that the
asshole said, at least
pick something plausable. I didn't see you defending his erroneous
postulation that
a PIR will not trip if the air temperature within it's range changes
rapidly.

Feel better now?

Or are you trying to give yourself a stroke?
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I didn't see you defending his erroneous
postulation that a PIR will not trip if the
air temperature within it's range changes
rapidly.

Jiminex is categorically wrong. The detector doesn't *see* air temperature. When warm (or cool) air moves across in front of the
detector without touching it and without heating or moving a visible object, the detector is unaffected. Jiminex is confused by the
difference between air movement in view of the detector and air *striking* the detector. The latter can easily trip many PIR
detectors. That is one of the reasons it is important to seal the wire entry hole in a PIR. But it is not a problem unless the air
current hits an object within the detector's field of view or the detector itself.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass said:
Jiminex is categorically wrong. The detector doesn't *see* air
temperature. When warm (or cool) air moves across in front of the
detector without touching it and without heating or moving a visible
object, the detector is unaffected. Jiminex is confused by the
difference between air movement in view of the detector and air *striking*
the detector. The latter can easily trip many PIR
detectors. That is one of the reasons it is important to seal the wire
entry hole in a PIR.

After reading this I don't think Jim's the one thats confused, you
apparently know nothing about PIR's
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
After reading this I don't think Jim's
the one thats confused, you apparently
know nothing about PIR's...

Apparently I know more about them than you and Jiminex combined. You spend all your time programming alarms by modem. I spent more
than two decades installing and servicing them.
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass said:
Apparently I know more about them than you and Jiminex combined.

When warm air moves in front of a motion it will indeed be detected which is
why it is good installation policy not to point one at a heating/air
conditioning vent. This is far more important than sealing holes in the PIR
itself although who knows how you explain installing a motion to your
clients, apparently it involves mounting the PIR away from a wall.
You spend all your time programming alarms by modem. I spent more
than two decades installing and servicing them.

Much like your knowledge of Frank you have no idea what I do
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
After reading this I don't think Jim's
When warm air moves in front of a motion
it will indeed be detected...

Only if it heats (or cools) the detector itself. Air moving past but not directly contacting the detector and not heating an object
in the FOV will not change the amount of IR striking the transducer.
which is why it is good installation policy
not to point one at a heating/air conditioning
vent...

Wrong again. The reason you shouldn't aim a PIR at a heating vent is the vent itself and surfaces nearby can change temperature
rapidly.
This is far more important than sealing
holes in the PIR itself although who knows
how you explain installing a motion to your
clients, apparently it involves mounting
the PIR away from a wall.

It is important not to point the detector at a heat source, but you misunderstand the reason why. As to sealing the wiring hole,
that is simply good practice. It helps keep drafts and bugs out of the detector.
Much like your knowledge of Frank you
have no idea what I do

I know that like Olson, you're a BS artist with less field experience than most here except perhaps the idiot Petem.
 
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