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Phase-locked loop IC recommendation

P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

If all else fails I may have to implement this project with a PLL
which will need to generate 30-50 channels @ 10Khz spacing in the
region of between 40.5 - 41Mhz.
Any suitable devices/manufacturers spring to mind?

Thanks,

p.
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Motorola had some good ones a few years back -- I'm not sure if they still
do, or if it'd be Mot or On that would have gotten them. Look for
"synthesizer" though -- "PLL" gets you discussions of microprocessor clock
generation.
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
You keep distracting me when I'm supposed to be working! Can't you ask
questions about _boring_ things, or things that I don't know the answers to,
fer cryin out loud?

Try the MC145170-2 (this must be why Motorola is spinning off their
semiconductor division -- the part numbers are getting too long). It's not
the one that I've used but it looks good on paper. You will have to program
it serially; they don't have a parallel load one that'll go over 20MHz.

Tim Wescott said:
Motorola had some good ones a few years back -- I'm not sure if they still
do, or if it'd be Mot or On that would have gotten them. Look for
"synthesizer" though -- "PLL" gets you discussions of microprocessor clock
generation.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

If all else fails I may have to implement this project with a PLL
which will need to generate 30-50 channels @ 10Khz spacing in the
region of between 40.5 - 41Mhz.
Any suitable devices/manufacturers spring to mind?

Thanks,

p.

DDS?

John
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Burridge said:
Hi,

If all else fails I may have to implement this project with a PLL
which will need to generate 30-50 channels @ 10Khz spacing in the
region of between 40.5 - 41Mhz.
Any suitable devices/manufacturers spring to mind?

Thanks,

p.

"If all else fails...."
"IF ALL ELSE FAILS"

Purleeeeeeeese

You mean all those other dribbly posts about op-amps as bandpass filters and
varactors and ceramic resonators and pulling them to 8.1-8.2MHz and
inverting buffers and crap know what else boils down to.....

"I want to generate 40.5-41MHz in 10KHz steps"

?????????????????????
"Channels".....
?????????????????????

"May have to implement this project"
"MAY HAVE TO IMPLEMENT THIS PROJECT"

*PROJECT*

Unberlinkingleivable.

From CMOS gate oscillator to programmable PLL or DDS frequency synthesis in
one giant leap.

Now I know there are those out there who don't look too kindly upon this
Burridge Baiting. Kindly just shut up. Well, feel free to criticise if you
want. At least take four steps back and carefully consider what's going on
here.

Be aware, be very aware. Paul Burridge is wasting your time.

As a useful analogy consider how you would teach someone the art of farting
before they have mastered the finer points of taking a shit.

'OK, try it again'
'Schplurrrrt'
'Damn..... Look I thought I told you to empty your bowels first'
'Schplurrrrrrrt'
'OK, OK.... let's try the enema first.'

'OK, try it again.'
'Squuuiiiiirrrrrt.'
'Oh, I give up.'

I think it's all quite amusing really.

DNA

Death, it's kind of like nothing.
It's got to be better than this.
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
You mean all those other dribbly posts about op-amps as bandpass filters and
varactors and ceramic resonators and pulling them to 8.1-8.2MHz and
inverting buffers and crap know what else boils down to.....

"I want to generate 40.5-41MHz in 10KHz steps"

?????????????????????
"Channels".....
?????????????????????

Since you're sober for once, I'll respond....

Yes, channels will do, as will a continuous sweep. It's not important
for this application.
From CMOS gate oscillator to programmable PLL or DDS frequency synthesis in
one giant leap.

Rubbish. I was playing about with PLLs over 20 years ago. And got 3/4
of the way through my own design of PCM system before other things
took priority. I passed my amateur radio examinations (with a double
distinction) in the early 1980s and spent the rest of the decade
communicating via CW with the old Warsaw Pact countries on 40m. I
agree there are large disparities in my knowledge base. An explanation
is required and it's perfectly simple: I never followed a formalised
course in electronics at all. What I do know I taught myself on and
off over a period of years from age 9 and only intently studied the
bits of the subject I found interesting. Hence there *are* I freely
admit, fundamental gaps here and there that show up from time to time.
I'm constantly working on filling in the gaps despite what others may
think. But the suggestion that I'm trolling is complete rubbish. If
you don't like reading my postings I suggest you employ your killfile.
I'm waiting for my main computer to come back so I can make full use
of *mine* and you'll be one of the first entries in it.

I'll close by giving everyone a chance to read once again the type of
crap *you* typically post here and leave them to decide which of us is
wasting bandwidth:
 
A

Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
Isn't that the Limey R/C band where you get to butt f*#k each other
on adjacent channels rather than share the band with (read "take it
up the butt from") paging services, etc. like we Yanks do?

You keep distracting me when I'm supposed to be working! Can't you ask
questions about _boring_ things, or things that I don't know the answers to,
fer cryin out loud?

Try the MC145170-2

which is also covered in AN1207. General design note is AN535. If
you like, we can quiz you before you quiz us. That way we can act
rather than react.

Prerequisites / stuff to know:

Algebra.
Trig.
Calculus.
Complex numbers
Electronic Circuit Analysis
Diff eq.
Laplace transforms
Feedback and Control Theory

Understand poles and zeros and pole zero analysis.
Understand Bode plots.
Understand Nyquist Stability.

What'd I leave out? -- MCU's...

Suggested reading:

Everything, everything else, everything related that's archived at
Google, and the bit on how to pronounce "Bode".

Alternate Approach I - The Psuedoscientific Approach:

Finding and Hiring a Consultant.
Raising Capital to Pay Consultant.
Writing a Business Plan to Connive $ Out of VC.
Talking Shit to VC's.
How to Find a VC That Doesn't Know F' All
About Electronics but Has Too Much Money and Too Few Smarts.
Getting More Money Out of VC to Pay More Consultant Fees.
Promising Shares in a Nonexistant Company.
Jumping Ship and Skipping Town When VC Stops Sending Checks.
Obfuscation of the Business Entity, Litigation, and How the Appeal
Process Works Against the Plaintiff. - from the law offices of
Block, Stall, Wild, and Wilder.

Alternate Approach II - The Green Bean Approach, AKA cheating:

Hack through it. Find a circuit on inet.

<snip>
 
L

Leon Heller

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
Hi,

If all else fails I may have to implement this project with a PLL
which will need to generate 30-50 channels @ 10Khz spacing in the
region of between 40.5 - 41Mhz.
Any suitable devices/manufacturers spring to mind?

A DDS is the easiest way to do this. Have a look at the AD9850 and
friends from ADI.

Leon
 
A

Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
Did I also read something to the effect that it could be swept?
Maybe if you tell us what yer up to, we can suggest something.
Since you're sober for once, I'll respond....

Yes, channels will do, as will a continuous sweep. It's not important
for this application.


Rubbish. I was playing about with PLLs over 20 years ago. And got 3/4
of the way through my own design of PCM system

PCM with a PLL? You mean PCM data sent thru a PLL controlled Tx?
before other things
took priority. I passed my amateur radio examinations (with a double
distinction) in the early 1980s and spent the rest of the decade
communicating via CW with the old Warsaw Pact countries on 40m.

Voice of Burridge? ;) And all these years I thought Stealth Tech
brought down the USSR.

u will comply. ohms r futile. u will b assimilated. SK
I
agree there are large disparities in my knowledge base. An explanation
is required and it's perfectly simple: I never followed a formalised
course in electronics at all.

ohms r futile.
What I do know I taught myself on and
off over a period of years from age 9

How old are you, anyway?

<snip>
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
A DDS is the easiest way to do this. Have a look at the AD9850 and
friends from ADI.

Thanks, Leon. I've never heard of it but will do a search and find
out...
I've also ordered a load of xtals and resonators this morning in the
expectation I may have to cobble up some combination of
multiplication, mixing; sum and difference and filtering etc. to get
what I want. What a nightmare and only a week to go. :-(
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
Did I also read something to the effect that it could be swept?

Yep, see below.
Maybe if you tell us what yer up to, we can suggest something.

It's not rocket science, Mike. Just want to sweep the r/c channels at
40Mhz to test the effectiveness of some filters I'm going to build to
protect our robots from interference, that's all. Frank ("RF" Frank)
was kind enough to send me a design for a sweep generator for 40Mhz
and it worked great (even with my old-style, hopelessly bad boards
-must have been a stable design so thanks, Frank). *However* due to
unforseseen circumstances, we've been limited to using the very top of
the available band and Frank's design doesn't quite get there. Not his
fault but *mine* I hasten to add (made careless error with the
original spec). Anyway, this shift to the top end of the band
necessitates a re-working of the sweep-gen.
PCM with a PLL? You mean PCM data sent thru a PLL controlled Tx?

No, no, no. They were two seperate and unrelated projects. The PCM
idea was an early attempt of mine to digitise, compress and encrypt
speech channels.
Voice of Burridge? ;) And all these years I thought Stealth Tech
brought down the USSR.

u will comply. ohms r futile. u will b assimilated. SK

Hehe! The poor old Russians back then never really said much at all -
they weren't allowed to chat in general terms thanks to the cold war
and all that. But I got a lot of practice on the conversational side
of CW with the Germans. They're a great bunch of people and very
friendly. You woudn't think feelings could come across over such a
monochrome and sterile medium but I can assure you that Morse is much
under-rated.
How old are you, anyway?

<mumble, mumble> Sore point! :-(
 
N

none

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
Hi,

If all else fails I may have to implement this project with a PLL
which will need to generate 30-50 channels @ 10Khz spacing in the
region of between 40.5 - 41Mhz.
Any suitable devices/manufacturers spring to mind?


perhaps the AD4001.

Though I might also recommend having a look at a DDS such as
the AD9854

Rene
 
A

Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yep, see below.


It's not rocket science, Mike. Just want to sweep the r/c channels at
40Mhz to test the effectiveness of some filters I'm going to build to
protect our robots from interference,

Oh. That's a whole subject.

While DDS would be easiest for you, I don't think you need that or
a PLL. Just sweep the osc with a ramp and add markers for your freq
refs.

Anybody remember the easy way to get a marker pip?

If the output amplitude of the osc is not constant across the band,
you can use a sweep comparator setup where the direct osc out is
compared to the filtered output. So if there's no filter (a jumper)
you get a flat line regardless of amplitude variations.
that's all. Frank ("RF" Frank)

Ah. Paisan.

<mumble, mumble> Sore point! :-(
ok.
 
A

Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks, Leon. I've never heard of it but will do a search and find
out...
I've also ordered a load of xtals and resonators this morning in the
expectation I may have to cobble up some combination of
multiplication, mixing; sum and difference and filtering etc. to get
what I want. What a nightmare and only a week to go. :-(
Gaff the resonators. You said you were having trouble pulling them
to the top of the band. Run some varactors in their most linear
range against a coil. You don't need exact freqs to see the shape
of the filter.

I think you can use the crystals to give you those marker pips.
They'll peak as the osc sweeps through their freqs. Jusr don't over
drive 'em.

Look up sweep generator and sweep comparator. save a boatload of
time.
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
PLONK him and his threads.

Excellent advice! I plan to do exactly the same with you and your
colleague just as soon as I get my full version of Agent back.
 
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