Perpetual charging

[Dario Moreno]

I have a question that puzzles me for quite some time. We have 4 wheels on a car
that turns when you drive. Will it be possible that we can have alternators in
all the wheel shafts thus having 4 sources of chargers ?. Thus we can have a
self powering car with battery.!!!

 

[Adrian C]

I have a question that puzzles me for quite some time. We have 4 wheels on a car
that turns when you drive. Will it be possible that we can have alternators in
all the wheel shafts thus having 4 sources of chargers ?. Thus we can have a
self powering car with battery.!!!

This has got to be a troll. If you know the word 'perpertual' you are
probably already conversant with the issue itself? Someone who wrote the
question without using that term would probably be asking an honest
question.

If you are serious, googling your term brings
<http://burtleburtle.net/bob/physics/whythere.html>

 

[Dario Moreno]

This has got to be a troll. If you know the word 'perpertual' you are
probably already conversant with the issue itself? Someone who wrote the
question without using that term would probably be asking an honest
question.

If you are serious, googling your term brings
<http://burtleburtle.net/bob/physics/whythere.html>

Adrian,

This was not a troll. I have searched the net and went to the library to
find about the energy loss on DC motors but I could not find an answer.
How much energy was needed to run a car and how much of it could be
generated by the movements of the car and maybe some help from a
solar charger is a subject that I would like to learn more about.
I came across this newsgroup and thought a knowledgeable
person could help me for my curiosity. I used the word perpetual just to
draw attention to my post.
Thanks for the web site though, I will check it out.

 

[Guest]

The energy to drive a car at constant speed on flat and level ground is
dependant on the various forces, frictional losses, road loads, aerodynamic
drag, etc...

To power a car as you suggest would not work....at least not completely. The
alternators are only so efficient and the rest would be lost somewhere as
heat, plus you would need some external source of energy to get it started
in the first place.

Do a search for the electric vehcle discussion list and you should get more
information than you could imagine....

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

I have a question that puzzles me for quite some time. We have 4 wheels on a car
that turns when you drive. Will it be possible that we can have alternators in
all the wheel shafts thus having 4 sources of chargers ?. Thus we can have a
self powering car with battery.!!!

Nope. The wheel mounted generators will produce a torque as they put out
electrical power that acts against the direction of wheel rotation. Just
like dragging your brakes. You now have to put more power into the
propulsion system to overcome this. Its not quite as bad as dragging
brakes, since part of the energy consumed will be returned to the
battery. But you only break even if the generators are perfect, i.e..
zero loss.

There is one application of this idea that I've seen. That is, the
construction of a hybrid car by adding a motor-generator electric drive
to the two wheels not driven by the internal combustion engine. This
system was probably somewhat less efficient than a hybrid with the
motor-generator coupled to the IC engine (as is done now), because the
'charging power' is coupled from one axle to the other through tire
rolling resistance. But it did allow the creation of a hybrid without
having to 'break into' the conventional drive train. And it created a
part time all-wheel drive system.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto[email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------------
100 buckets of bits on the bus
100 buckets of bits
You take one down,
and short it to ground
FF buckets of bits on the bus

 

[Anedix]

The energy to drive a car at constant speed on flat and level
ground is dependant on the various forces, frictional losses, road
loads, aerodynamic drag, etc...

To power a car as you suggest would not work....at least not
completely. The alternators are only so efficient and the rest
would be lost somewhere as heat, plus you would need some external
source of energy to get it started in the first place.

Do a search for the electric vehcle discussion list and you should
get more information than you could imagine....

Oh, I don't know. I suppose it could be made to work, But the real
problem as I see it is getting rid of the surplus electricity which
you may not need.

One design I saw recently used the pointed aerial to squirt a charge
into the air and that way dissipate the excess electrical energy. It
may sound odd but it's better than a design I saw a few month ago
which has a fast-turning spool mounted on the rear of the car and
letting out a long wire which was plugged in at the other end to the
motorist's own house.

I think they had some leyden jars on the roof and stored the energy
there.

Anyway, can I come back to an important topic which is troubling me
quite a lot these days. Why doesn't my Nokia phone change the
traffic lights in my favor as I approach these days? Have they
changed the frequencies or the encoding scheme of the sub-ether
signalling?




:
-
)

 

[Guest]

OK......since we seem to be seeking perpetual motion here, and I'm
bored...let's play!

Real science only.....and real products, lets make a car that will never
need to be plugged in, does not have any substantial emmisions (gassing of
bearing lubes, outgassing of VOC's from fiberglass, but no burning of carbon
based fuels).....if you have the money it can actually be done.

No Tesla coils, leydon jars, or vaporware......

kitcar based

Lithium Batteries

permanent magnet motors

lightweight construction (fiberglass and carbon fiber, polycarbonate
windows)

This can be done today with "off the shelf components" and give you a range
of around 300 miles per charge (with about $30,000 worth of batteries) but
you still have to plug it in.....

To get past the plug, you need to combine the lithium batts with something
from these guys.....

http://www.betabatt.com/

of course now the whole thing will cost you close to a cool million.....

Cheers,
David W. Beard

 

[Don Kelly]

----------------------------

Adrian,

This was not a troll. I have searched the net and went to the library to
find about the energy loss on DC motors but I could not find an answer.
How much energy was needed to run a car and how much of it could be
generated by the movements of the car and maybe some help from a
solar charger is a subject that I would like to learn more about.
I came across this newsgroup and thought a knowledgeable
person could help me for my curiosity. I used the word perpetual just to
draw attention to my post.
Thanks for the web site though, I will check it out.

--------------------
The energy to charge the batteries comes from the alternator and eventually
the IC engine. If you put alternators on the wheels, then the charging
energy would still come from the IC engine as the energy to the wheels would
be that to provide normal propulsion plus the charging. That is, if you
were driving at a constant speed, you would have, say 40KW to move the care
and regenerate ,say, 10KW. That would require a net input from the engine of
over 50KW. All you would have is a more complicated way to do what is
happening now- with a single, belt driven alternator- with the possibility
of getting some regenerative braking.

You definitely will not get a self powering car!

Added comment for Anedix:

What excess electrical energy? If you are not using it or storing it, you
aren't producing it.