PCB design software for Mac?

[[email protected]]

Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that
allows me to design electronic circuits?
Just something simple and easy to use that allows me to draw component
pins' holes (with the correct spacing/placement for connectors, ICs
etc) and traces between them so I can finally print it out and make it
into a PCB.

I much prefer a simple but limited electronic "drawing program" over
something sophisticated that takes weeks to figure out and has features
I won't ever need

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that
allows me to design electronic circuits?

McCad? (www.mccad.com)

Google is your friend?

 

[JeffM]

free or low cost [ECAD] software for Mac [OS X] ?

Open source: KiCAD; gEDA
Very usable demo: Cadsoft EAGLE
Don't know anything about it: Osmond PCB

I much prefer a simple but limited electronic "drawing program"

The more the app can do,
the less you have to struggle to get what you want.

 

[DJ Delorie]

Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that
allows me to design electronic circuits?

gEDA's pcb program works just fine under OS/X using the OpenMotif
library (--with-gui=lesstif).

If you have gtk, the schematic capture toolset will work too.

 

[Kevin White]

Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that
allows me to design electronic circuits?
Just something simple and easy to use that allows me to draw component
pins' holes (with the correct spacing/placement for connectors, ICs
etc) and traces between them so I can finally print it out and make it
into a PCB.

I much prefer a simple but limited electronic "drawing program" over
something sophisticated that takes weeks to figure out and has features
I won't ever need

Eagle from Cadsoft (http://cadsoft.de/info.htm) runs on Mac, has a free
version with page limitations and can do schematic and PCB layout.

kevin

 

[[email protected]]

McCad? (www.mccad.com)

Google is your friend?

I used VAMP years ago and it was not up to the quality level of PC
software. To call it terrible is an understatement.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks.
Yes, Google *is* my friend, but you really have to know what to look
for when doing a search ;-)
I've downloaded several of the packages mentioned here although a few
of them seem very Mac-unlike, needing a command-line input to install
etc. Probably ported from Linux/UNIX and suited for hackers to use. I
need something that is easy to install and use.

However, the following programs are now installed on my Mac and seem to
work like they should:

Osmond PCB (http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html)
McCad EDS lite (http://www.mccad.com/FREEMACSTUFF.html)
Epoxy (http://jumpifnotzero.free.fr/logitheque/epoxy_uk.html)


Out of the three it looks like Epoxy is the most user-friendly one (at
first glance at least), but I have to admit that I'm pretty clueless
when it comes to software like this. It's quite overwhelming and I
don't know where to start.

Can someone please explain the basic concept/idea/procedure regarding
PCB design using this kind of software?
I've previously made PCBs the "manual" method using etch-resistant
pens/rub-on transfers, etched the copper-clad board, then finally
drilled the holes. I've also used the UV-light method with PCB layouts
taken from electronics magazines etc. So I'm not completely new to PCB
design, but I am to PCB-design *software*).

So why am I looking at PCB design software?
If I'm not completely mistaken the software will replace the Dalo pen
and rub-on transfers allowing me to correct (expensive) mistakes, and
also lets me get the correct pin placement/spacing for components such
as connectors and ICs. And in the end I can print out the whole circuit
diagram in 1:1 size to a transparency which is used with a UV
photo-sensitive copper-clad board.
Is this what I can do with this kind of software?

The various software comes with manuals, but they assume you know the
concept/procedure and only explain the keyboard shortcuts, additional
features of that particular program etc. Not much help for me at this
stage. So it would be helpful if I could get a short explanation of how
these programs are used as tools to accomplish my task.
Thanks

 

[Bjarne Bäckström]

[...]

Osmond PCB (http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html)
McCad EDS lite (http://www.mccad.com/FREEMACSTUFF.html)
Epoxy (http://jumpifnotzero.free.fr/logitheque/epoxy_uk.html)

I've been using McCAD professionally since 1989. Despite its share of
warts and quirks, I've found it to be the most user-friendly and
complete (from a professional view) package available for the Mac.

If I were to start over today, I'd give the gEDA suite a fair chance,
though. It has a steep learning curve, but it also has a lot of
possibilities. And the price is right...

Out of the three it looks like Epoxy is the most user-friendly one (at
first glance at least), but I have to admit that I'm pretty clueless
when it comes to software like this.

I've tried the "Classic" version of Epoxy, but it crashed so many
times before I'd even finished a simple schematic diagram, so I gave it
up.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Can someone please explain the basic concept/idea/procedure regarding
PCB design using this kind of software?

Try out this guy's tutorial:
http://alternatezone.com/electronics/pcbdesign.htm ... it's quite complete,
and he's tried to make it reasonably "generic" -- not tied to any one
program -- although the author happens to use Protel.

If I'm not completely mistaken the software will replace the Dalo pen
and rub-on transfers allowing me to correct (expensive) mistakes, and
also lets me get the correct pin placement/spacing for components such
as connectors and ICs. And in the end I can print out the whole circuit
diagram in 1:1 size to a transparency which is used with a UV
photo-sensitive copper-clad board.
Is this what I can do with this kind of software?

Yes, absolutely... or of course you can send out the artwork files to have the
board professionally manufactured.

---Joel

 

[JeffM]

Can someone please explain the basic concept/idea/procedure
regarding PCB design using this kind of software?

First, this is NOT Google Groups; this is USENET.
You should read this before posting again:
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...ize.what.you're.following.up+BOTTOM+qq+Usenet
I am pointing specifically to the stuff highlighted at the 70% mark.
..
..
The Steps in PCB Design -- Ken Smith
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....-main-stepps-involved-in-circuit-board-design

The Steps in PCB Design (Part 2) -- George Gonzalez
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....8/c32c0c19ccd2080e?q=you-could-add-a-few-more

The advantage of ECAD over tape-up (with increasing PCB complexity)
is that the DRC subroutine (Design Rules Check) double-checks your work
making *correct once* == *always correct* when transfering to copper.
The whole back-annotation thing (between schematic and layout)
is also handy.
..
..

I can print out the whole circuit diagram in 1:1 size to a transparency
which is used with a UV photo-sensitive copper-clad board.
Is this what I can do with this kind of software?

It can also be replicated easily numerous times
--with construction outsourced to a PCB fabrication house
(who can do solder mask, silkscreen, plated-thru holes, etc.).

 

[[email protected]]

Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that
allows me to design electronic circuits?

A $0.02 observation: If you are designing PCBs, per se, you ultimately
want to be able to output standard CAM files that can be used by a PCB
house. IMHO, working with drawing packages and the open-source
offerings to hand is merely wasting effort that would be better spent
learning how to do the basics in a real CAD package.

By this criterion, only Cadsoft EAGLE qualifies. The free demo is
limited to 2 layers, 1/2 Eurocard, and one schematic sheet (but it can
be a big sheet).

 

[DJ Delorie]

A $0.02 observation: If you are designing PCBs, per se, you ultimately
want to be able to output standard CAM files that can be used by a PCB
house. IMHO, working with drawing packages and the open-source
offerings to hand is merely wasting effort that would be better spent
learning how to do the basics in a real CAD package.

Er, gEDA's PCB is open source, and produces perfectly valid gerber
files as output. PCB houses don't seem to have a problem using them,
either, and PCB doesn't place artificial limits on board size or
complexity like some proprietary offerings ("trial versions") do.

Please don't disparage "open source" en masse. If you have complaints
about specific packages, fine, but lumping them all in a "broken"
category does a disservice to us all.

 

[JeffM]

If you are designing PCBs[...]
you ultimately want to be able to output standard CAM files
that can be used by a PCB house.
IMHO, working with drawing packages

Lewin,
Assuming you're talking about Corel Draw or similar, we agree so far.

and the open-source offerings to hand is merely wasting effort
that would be better spent learning
how to do the basics in a real CAD package.

The open source apps mentioned so far are KiCAD and gEDA.
Which of these do you think does not output Gerber/Excellon?

By this criterion, only Cadsoft EAGLE qualifies.

Disagree strongly with *only*.

The free demo is limited to 2 layers,

That's 2 COPPER layers--full functionality on mask, silk, keepout, etc.

1/2 Eurocard, and one schematic sheet (but it can be a big sheet).

True. Cadsoft's demo is very usable for many folks.
....and if you want to sell what you produce with it,
$50 will get you legit.

At this point, someone usually mentions
EAGLE's counter-intuitive user interface.
Having no experience with a Mac, I can't comment accurately on that
but I know that Windoze users need to
put aside the GUI conventions they have learned
and adapt to the Cadsoft paradigm.

 

[[email protected]]

First, this is NOT Google Groups; this is USENET.
You should read this before posting again:
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...ize.what.you're.following.up+BOTTOM+qq+Usenet
I am pointing specifically to the stuff highlighted at the 70% mark.

Are you referring to the following section?:

---------
When you click "Reply" under "show options" to follow up an existing
article, Google Groups includes the full article in quotes, with the
cursor at the top of the article. Tempting though it is to just start
typing your message, please STOP and do two things first. Look at the
quoted text and remove parts that are irrelevant.
---------

I don't understand what this has to do with my postings as I haven't
quoted anything in this thread yet! And yes, whan I do quote I do trim
it before replying.
I'm also unsure what you mean by this not being a Google group but
Usenet. Please explain.

 

[[email protected]]

Er, gEDA's PCB is open source, and produces perfectly valid gerber
files as output.

Please don't disparage "open source" en masse. If you have complaints
about specific packages, fine, but lumping them all in a "broken"
category does a disservice to us all.

I've had a look at a few more software packages now, and the open
source ones may be fine, but to the average Mac user, delving into
compiling, command-line installations and such is a but off-putting to
say the least. I believe most Mac users (and Windows users as well of
course), are spoilt by software that is as simple to install as
download it, then double-click to install. All self-explanetory.

CADsoft Eagle light: a little cumbersome to install, but by following
the instructions I managed to install it and give it a try. However, as
JeffM mentiones, people usually mention its counter-intuitive user
interface, which is what comes to mind here. It's very Mac-unlike and
seems a tad user-unfriendly.

kiCAD: this one is a puzzle!
I've downloaded and installed it here, but can't figure out how to run
it. There's the usual myriad of folders within folders (typical
UNIX/Linux style), but having found a folder named "MacOSX" I did find
several icons which looked like applications, one of them being named
"kicad" which I double-clicked resulting in MacOS classic starting, but
then nothing!
There's no information about the Mac version at the kiCAD site
(http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/index.html), although
Google helped me locate a Mac download here: http://www.japina.eu/
Alas, no instructions to be found, so I think this one is a timewaster
for the Mac platform at least.

gEDA: this one has me even more confused and baffled. Google led me to
this page: http://geda.seul.org/index.html
and more specifically for the Mac: http://www.ghz.cc/charles/fink/
However, it's confusing as to what I should download, and from the
looks of it I get the impression that I need to compile it myself and
so on. Things that I know nothing about. There are long-winding and
cryptic FAQs to be found, but frankly I think this sort of thing is
more for people who have a lot of free time and special interest in
computers. I just want to get on with it and make my PCBs.

Actually, as long as I can get the job done I don't really care if the
user-interface isn't completely "Mac like" though I do prefer the
latter. At the moment however all of these programs look more or less
the same to me. Equally confusing and non-intuitive, be it Mac-like
looking or not.

 

[[email protected]]

Try out this guy's tutorial:
http://alternatezone.com/electronics/pcbdesign.htm ... it's quite complete,
and he's tried to make it reasonably "generic" -- not tied to any one
program -- although the author happens to use Protel.

Thanks. Actually I found it myself just before reading this posting
Yup, again, Google is my friend in need ;-)

Not quite understanding the basic concept of PCB creation software, but
having read a little, played around with some programs etc. I believe I
might start getting an idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the
basic idea?:

- a PCB design program is actually two programs (or parts) rolled into
one:
a) a schematic design program
b) a circuit board design program

- Unlike a normal drawing program, a schematic drawing program "links"
parts together with wires, so that the parts can be moved around and
the connections will follow. In other words, there's some
"intelligence" behind what you see, not just a picture.

- You first have to create a schematic diagram of your circuit which
means placing all of your components together, and connecting them
together with wires to form the finished circuit.

- Having completed the schematic (and checked to see if everything is
OK) you save it as a file, then open (or transfer) that same file into
the circuit-board section of the program.
I'm taking a guess here, but I believe the circuit-board program
understands the schematic file in such a way that it knows which
components are wired together in which way, then "translates" all of
this information into a real-life circuit board, with PCB traces and
everything. Basically, the work involved in making a PCB is designing
the schematic diagram! Correct?

If the above is correct I assume that once the PCB program (or section
of the program) has "translated" the schematic, all that is left to do
is move the components around to your liking (e.g. you might want the
connectors on the side of the PCB etc. and possibly move the traces
around in a different way, then print out the whole circuit board to a
transparency which can be used to actually etch the PCB (or send the
PCB file to a professional manufacturer).

So, have I understood the basic concept?

 

[JeffM]

I'm also unsure what you mean by this not being a Google group...

Google Groups is only *one* way of accessing Usenet
--at this point, many will say the INFERIOR way.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...oogle-cannot-muster-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

...but Usenet.

Usenet was around before Google, before the WorldWide Web,
and before the Internet.
Being accessible thru the Internet has not, however,
changed the conventions of Usenet.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...le-*-*-*-*+qq-qq+adapt-your-own-*-accordingly

no-spam2@ lycos.com wrote {WITHOUT CONTEXT]:

Can someone please explain[...]

[...]NOT Google[...]

no-spam2@ lycos.com wrote
Are you referring to the following section?:
"...Look at the quoted text and remove parts that are irrelevant."
Yup.

I don't understand what this has to do with my postings...

Think: Community. Think: Lowest-common-denominator.

...as I haven't quoted anything in this thread yet!

That's the point.
MOST people reading Usenet use a NEWSREADER
and DON'T SEE WHAT YOU SEE ON GOOGLE.
Indeed, the distributed nature of Usenet
means that some folks may not see *some* posts AT ALL.

In all **responses** you make, put a reference that shows
1) To whom you are responding
2) Some indication of WTF he was talking about.
(Often you can trim it to just a few words.)
- Many newsreaders auto-insert the Message ID of the previous post;
many users see that inclusion as useful.

And yes, [when] I do quote I do trim it before replying.

I hadn't seen that evidence
Of course with your generic username, that would be easy to forget
--even if I had seen it.