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Pancake coil winding

S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
How are flat spiral (pancake) coils wound? How does the machine
differ from a conventional computer controlled winding machine?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
How are flat spiral (pancake) coils wound?  How does the machine
differ from a conventional computer controlled winding machine?

Isn't it just the degenerate case of 1 turn per layer?

But the ridiculous aspect ratio (height of turns : width of turns way
way bigger than one) will require some sort of bobbin wall.

I don't know much about "conventional computer controlled winding
machines" but have run hand-driven Morris coil winders.

Tim.
 
T

Terry Given

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
Isn't it just the degenerate case of 1 turn per layer?

But the ridiculous aspect ratio (height of turns : width of turns way
way bigger than one) will require some sort of bobbin wall.

I don't know much about "conventional computer controlled winding
machines" but have run hand-driven Morris coil winders.

Tim.

do they dance with swords?

Cheers
Terry
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Isn't it just the degenerate case of 1 turn per layer?

No! More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?
But the ridiculous aspect ratio (height of turns : width of turns way
way bigger than one) will require some sort of bobbin wall.

I don't know much about "conventional computer controlled winding
machines" but have run hand-driven Morris coil winders.

Tim.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
No! More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?
[snip]

Chewing gum ?:)

...Jim Thompson
 
E

Ecnerwal

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro Pefhany said:
More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?

Presumably with a bobbin. If you're seeing examples with no bobbin, then
they were wound with a bobbin (or the moral equivalent - call it a coil
former, if you like) and then probably varnished or epoxied, IMHO.
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro said:
No! More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?

Cotton covered and soaked with tacky wax.
 
No!  More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?

They might be using self-bonding wire, with comes with a layer of
thermosetting adhesive on top of the enamel; you wind the coil, then
run a carefully calculated current through the coil to get it hot
enough to set the adhesive,then take it out of the bobbin - the
application notes specify the kind of bobbin materials you can get
away with and the sort of release agents you have to use on the bobbin
so that you can take it out of the bobbin.

Most of the people I've talked with who have built self-supporting
coils didn't know about self-bonding wire and used slow-setting epoxy
resin. Here's the first useful web-site that I found with a quick
google.

http://www.mwswire.com/bond1.htm
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:38:13 -0800 (PST), the renowned
They might be using self-bonding wire, with comes with a layer of
thermosetting adhesive on top of the enamel; you wind the coil, then
run a carefully calculated current through the coil to get it hot
enough to set the adhesive,then take it out of the bobbin - the
application notes specify the kind of bobbin materials you can get
away with and the sort of release agents you have to use on the bobbin
so that you can take it out of the bobbin.

Most of the people I've talked with who have built self-supporting
coils didn't know about self-bonding wire and used slow-setting epoxy
resin. Here's the first useful web-site that I found with a quick
google.

http://www.mwswire.com/bond1.htm

Thanks, Bill, that's very useful information. I think I see how to do
it now.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro said:
No! More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?


Coil dope? That or hard wax. Those are the only two I've seen used.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro said:
How are flat spiral (pancake) coils wound? How does the machine
differ from a conventional computer controlled winding machine?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Why not make a PCB with a spiral path?
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro said:
No! More like one layer per turn-- but how do they get it to stay in
place?



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
A type of glue seems to be used; applied to the wire feeding into the
coil.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
How tacky? The wax was more tacky than my dumb jokes...


Not possible.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
How are flat spiral (pancake) coils wound? How does the machine
differ from a conventional computer controlled winding machine?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Currently it is often done with PWB processes (selective plating or
etching). Previously (about 60 years ago) it was done with litz wire
and glue.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Currently it is often done with PWB processes (selective plating or
etching).

That's not really winding-- and I'm not sure that PWB is practical for
relatively small quantities of coils made with exotic alloys.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
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