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[OT] The stupidity of being too clever by half...

S

Scott Stephens

Jan 1, 1970
0
xray said:
I think during their lifetimes all the religious leaders had pretty much
the same message. Now we are dealing with hundreds or thousands of years
of interpretation.

Not really. Checkout
http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Ginohn/cetera/hankisms.html

Crude, amusing, sad but true. We need some new isms. Or some more brains
and soul to figure out some better isms.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************
 
S

Scott Stephens

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
I don't care who, or what his idology is.

Some of us discriminate about whos sins we condemn for ulterior purposes.

Using force to override another
person's will is evil. It's that simple.

Its not that simple. What about overriding the will of children? The
criminally insane? You have a very simplistic outlook that indicates you
don't understand the complexity of the world you live in. That is a bad
thing.
I wasn't paying any attention.

Because you find the sins of hippy-bashing Repugs more offensive than
the sins of socialist, communist and even national-socialist (fascist)
Democrats? At least bash them some of the time.
When did I ever claim to be a "good little hippie?"

I think peacenicks should refrain from burning or using petroleum
products, which means they should be living like Amish, to not be
hypocrites.

Our culture is based on technology, and that technology is mostly
powered by petroleum, and half of that (IIRC) is coming from the middle
east, which is why our countrymen are being wounded and killed there,
and not in Africa or Antarctica. Let the Democrats run energy policy and
see what happens. They just complain because they can't and wont do
anything better or different.

I see Alaska passed a pot referendum! I'll bet some good weed is going
to be growing their soon. I hear its a great place to vacation. Big fish
in all the rivers. Beautiful countryside.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not really. Checkout
http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Ginohn/cetera/hankisms.html

Crude, amusing, sad but true. We need some new isms. Or some more brains
and soul to figure out some better isms.

Spooky! Look at the first one:

"Ancient Judaism - If you are nice to one of Hank's close personal
friends, they will kiss Hank's ass for you, and you'll get some money
right away. If you get the shit kicked out of you instead, it's your
own damn fault. Keep trying."

You could replace "Judaism" with "Cheneyism" or "Rovism" and it wouldn't
change the meaning a bit.

I think I like this guy's 'tude. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Some of us discriminate about whos sins we condemn for ulterior purposes.

Using force to override another

Its not that simple. What about overriding the will of children?

That's the most insidious evil of all, perpetrated, of course, in
the name of "god".

The
criminally insane?

Who defines "criminally insane?" These days, apparently, the punishment
for the criminally insane is to elect them to office.

You have a very simplistic outlook that indicates you
don't understand the complexity of the world you live in. That is a bad
thing.

If you say so.
Because you find the sins of hippy-bashing Repugs more offensive than
the sins of socialist, communist and even national-socialist (fascist)
Democrats? At least bash them some of the time.

No, I had other things going on in my immediate sphere of influence
than agonizing about who the politicos were killing that week.
I think peacenicks should refrain from burning or using petroleum
products, which means they should be living like Amish, to not be
hypocrites.

Well, OK, that's what you think "they" "should" do.

Well, I'm not going to live by your limitations, and if you want
to force me to, you're going to have to have the courage to come
over here and physically use force on me. That's the way your
religion works, isn't it? You're gonna save their souls if you
have to burn them at the stake?
Our culture is based on technology, and that technology is mostly
powered by petroleum, and half of that (IIRC) is coming from the middle
east, which is why our countrymen are being wounded and killed there,
and not in Africa or Antarctica. Let the Democrats run energy policy and
see what happens. They just complain because they can't and wont do
anything better or different.

I see Alaska passed a pot referendum! I'll bet some good weed is going
to be growing their soon. I hear its a great place to vacation. Big fish
in all the rivers. Beautiful countryside.

And so, in your little speech here, you have completely evaded my
question as to when I ever claimed to be a "good little hippy."

But you didn't pass up the opportunity to spew forth your personal
ideology, did you?

Thanks for another demonstration of how clockwork dupes operate.

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's the most insidious evil of all, perpetrated, of course, in
the name of "god".

I overrode the will of my children to protect them, civilize them, and
because I love them. To do less would be evil.

John
 
S

Scott Stephens

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's the most insidious evil of all, perpetrated, of course, in
the name of "god".

Not always. What about libertarians that coerce their children into
doing things that are ultimately for their own good?
Who defines "criminally insane?" These days, apparently, the punishment
for the criminally insane is to elect them to office.

I define it as people who think their good ideas entitle them to coerce
you to live for them, by serving them in some way or surrendering your
property to them.
Well, OK, that's what you think "they" "should" do.

They don't have to live like the Amish. They could buy solar cells and
wind mills and use bio-diesel fuel. Of course, all these things are made
from petroleum. But at least their unplugging from the world system,
rather than plugging in.

Its a moral issue. Peacenicks bitch and moan about circumstances they
create by their own consumption. You are paying people to fight for your
petroleum when you purchase it with dollars, simple as that. You are, in
effect, contracting a mercenary force to stabilize the global economy
whenever you spend a dollar. If you can't see that, you are myopic.

Reality doesn't change just because you dont want to see it.
Well, I'm not going to live by your limitations, and if you want
to force me to, you're going to have to have the courage to come
over here and physically use force on me.

No, I'll just laugh at how ignorant you are. Truth is self-evident,
stupidity reaps its own rewards.

That's the way your
religion works, isn't it? You're gonna save their souls if you
have to burn them at the stake?

I'm doing my best to worship the God of Reality, of Existence. Currently
I'm studying Peikoff's "Objectivism: The Philosophy Of Ayn Rand".
Hard-core materialistic atheism.

Not that I endorse it, her or him, but they have a profound grasp of
reality you seem to lack, as evidenced by your ability to only
criticize, citing failing policy but not any effective policy. And you
think magically, as evidenced by the religious beliefs you've stated,
and thinking that a run of sporting events could predict a political
election without citing causal rather than merely correlating factors.

My God doesn't need to burn anyone for not worshiping, Rich, those that
transgress my God burn themselves. You think when you spend your dollars
and live in a community, you don't motivate others in that community to
do evil? You do understand market capitalism?

Perhaps we can say we voted Libertarian - we didn't endorse direct
initiation of violence and advocate peace. But we spend dollars for
petroleum products, and we must realize the consequence on others of
motivating them thus.

A Libertarian must recognize the plight of his neighbors, and not "game"
and make "excuses" to avoid responsibility for influencing environment
and contexts of actions.

You are responsible for educating your children right and wrong, so they
don't rob others for you. Or don't get together in a mob to enslave
others, as socialists do.

I would recommend other of Rand/Peikoffs books, but your technically
minded enough to handle the one I cited. Read it, and see if you can
keep faith in your God ;)

It may challenge what you think of as your head and heart, spirit and
soul. Perhaps Objectivism lacks a context of faith, to believe the
universe is worth honoring it by living a life in it.
And so, in your little speech here, you have completely evaded my
question as to when I ever claimed to be a "good little hippy."

You like weed, you criticize war you are indirectly causing and is being
waged for your benefit, you live an unconventional existance, so I
identified you as a "hippy". I don't remember you claiming to be one.
Sorry if I offend.
But you didn't pass up the opportunity to spew forth your personal
ideology, did you?

Do I ever? Does anyone care? Have I ever gotten any rational, useful
feedback? When I resolve and integrate my love/hatred for society, I
wont bother spewing forth any more pearls before undeserving swine.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************
 
S

Scott Stephens

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, what induces subatomic particles to coalesce into atoms just the way
they do?
What induces these atoms to spontaneously form complex molecules, which
requires an input of energy?
What makes these molecules decide to get together and cooperate, building
even more complex molecules, that then cooperate, building organelles
and cell structures, and so on?

These are the kinds of questions I'm looking for the answer to.

Path of least *action*. "Action" is power - energy * time. If the
universe is a hyper-geometric space-time manifold, it seeks to conserve
what it is, like a soap bubble likes to be round to conserve what it is.

We experience "living" as a point moving along our "psychological arrow
of time".

I've heard time defined as the direction along which things have a
probability of occurring. If this perspective is true, and the universe'
dimensions fluctuate, are twisted about relative to each other, then
some spooky dynamics (from our "time" perspective) are probable. Our
space-time tensors are just a projection of our conscious experience of
time onto a chaotic manifold we can't know. Hawkings said he feared time
itself may be a complex quantity.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Path of least *action*. "Action" is power - energy * time. If the
universe is a hyper-geometric space-time manifold, it seeks to conserve
what it is, like a soap bubble likes to be round to conserve what it is.

We experience "living" as a point moving along our "psychological arrow
of time".

I've heard time defined as the direction along which things have a
probability of occurring. If this perspective is true, and the universe'
dimensions fluctuate, are twisted about relative to each other, then
some spooky dynamics (from our "time" perspective) are probable. Our
space-time tensors are just a projection of our conscious experience of
time onto a chaotic manifold we can't know. Hawkings said he feared time
itself may be a complex quantity.

Cool!

Thanks!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not always. What about libertarians that coerce their children into
doing things that are ultimately for their own good?

The presumption that you can possibly know what someone else's "own
good" is, is the height of arrogance. Overriding Free Will in any
guise, in any form, for whatever excuse, opens the door to evil.

I know it's true to the deepest core of my being, and I guess the rest of
you will have to keep going through the revenge/revenge cycle until you
learn to resolve conflict without murdering peple. You _can_ learn
to open to a greater truth, however, and you _do_ have the power to stop
the cycle of hatred and killing.

The choice is yours. You're only killing yourself, after all.


Thanks,
Rich
 
B

Bill Sloman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise said:
OK, what induces subatomic particles to coalesce into atoms just the way
they do?

The nucleus is held together by the exchange of quarks, and the
electrons orbit the nuclei under the influence of electrostatic
attraction, a process that is considerably complicated by the fact
that energy comes in discrete quantum-sized chunks.
What induces these atoms to spontaneously form complex molecules, which
requires an input of energy?

Endothermic molecules are pretty rare, but you can make them in
environments where they aren't endothermic vis-vis the immediate
environment. Some of them - like nitroglcerine
(trinitro-1,2,3-propane) - can hang around for quite a while before
decomposing.
What makes these molecules decide to get together and cooperate, building
even more complex molecules, that then cooperate, building organelles
and cell structures, and so on?

Evolution.

To understand a proper answer to the first question, you'd need to get
a degree in nuclear physics, to the second, a degree in chemistry, and
to the third, a degree in biochemistry. I've got the degree in
chemistry, but - after thirty years - I'm not sure that I'm up to
teaching you everything that they
taught me.
These are the kinds of questions I'm looking for the answer to.

Among others. ;-)

So get an education.
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Using force to override another person's will is evil. It's that simple.
I overrode the will of my children to protect them, civilize them, and
because I love them. To do less would be evil.
John Larkin

Aw, c'mon John. Wouldn't having "Lord of the Flies" played out before you
have been wonderfully entertaining? :cool:
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Aw, c'mon John. Wouldn't having "Lord of the Flies" played out before you
have been wonderfully entertaining? :cool:

Gaah. Children are savages. It's a dicey thing to keep a kid from
running wild, especially as a teenager; it takes a very delicate hand,
the right but not too steep incentive slope. My wife and I are almost
the only parents we know who haven't been screamed at, "I hate you!"

We know one girl who dropped out of high school, got a job in a pizza
restaurant, embezzled $32,000, and had an abortion, all in one year.

John
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
The presumption that you can possibly know what someone else's "own
good" is, is the height of arrogance.

It's known as "parenting."

John
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
.
We know one girl who dropped out of high school, got a job in a pizza
restaurant, embezzled $32,000, and had an abortion, all in one year.

Sounds pretty successful to me!

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
In California, it is; she'll get away clean.

I'd say, one would have to be pretty clever to even figure out _how_
to embezzle that kind of money, let alone charm herself into a position
where she could actually _do_ it.

Of course, she should pay the consequences if she gets caught. ;-)

The other stuff is just antifreedom blather.

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd say, one would have to be pretty clever to even figure out _how_
to embezzle that kind of money, let alone charm herself into a position
where she could actually _do_ it.

As I understand it, she took cash out of the register and stuffed it
into her, er, bodice. She has an expansive, er, bodice.

John
 
R

Rich The Philosophizer

Jan 1, 1970
0
As I understand it, she took cash out of the register and stuffed it
into her, er, bodice. She has an expansive, er, bodice.

Yikes! The only time I've ever had that kind of access to a cash
register it would have taken me fifteen years to steal $32,000.00!
(i.e., beer bar, nightly receipts ~ $150.00.)

And, another thought hits me - was she in the news? Then she must
have got caught. Or how did it pan out?

Cheers!
Rich
 
M

Mark Fergerson

Jan 1, 1970
0
it does?
Well, it might obey the laws of entropy, but it seems not
to want to.

What makes you think it doesn't? In one sense entropy can
be seen as the tendency toward compaction of not only matter
but information. But that compaction is conditional on the
properties of the things being compacted; some things fit
together better in certain ways. Water molecules like to
form hexagonal structures simply because of the pattern of
the individual molecules' electron orbitals. More complex
molecules have a wider range of possible patterns. Now, when
water crystallizes, is information gained, or lost?
described.

OK, what induces subatomic particles to coalesce into atoms just the way
they do?

Because those configurations are lower in potential
energy for all the participant particles than a random bunch
of free particles.
What induces these atoms to spontaneously form complex
molecules, which requires an input of energy?

No, it doesn't neccesarily require energy input. The
"complexity" you refer to is a matter of human perception.
As far as the component atoms are concerned, they're more
"comfortable" with a bunch of near neighbors so that their
localized potentials are neutralized, and the more the
better for certain ones, notably carbon. The patterned way
they combine is determined by the configurations of the
electron shells of the participants, and your confusion
apparently arises because there may be several possible ways
two or more atoms can neutralize their individual potentials
by coming together. That can be strongly influenced by the
availability of external energy.
What makes these molecules decide to get together and cooperate, building
even more complex molecules, that then cooperate, building organelles
and cell structures, and so on?

Human perception again. Where you see cooperation, others
see inevitable consequences of the neutralization of
localized potentials.
These are the kinds of questions I'm looking for the
answer to.

You're making the dangerous assumption that "the answer"
exists. That way lies religion (pun intended).

Mark L. Fergerson
 
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