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[OT] -- Oh Joy! I'm Connected again!

G

Gunner Asch

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd have to run it outside, and I can't find listings for direct-burial
CAT-5 cable. Moreover, I understand that even underground runs have
ground-differential problems during a lightning strike.

If I could be confident that I'm not going to blow out everything on my
network, and that the buried cable would last for at least 10 years I'd
jump on it -- when I commisioned the garage-office all the "experts" I
asked said "use wireless".


stick it in $50 worth of PVC pipe buried between the house and shop.

Then you dont need direct burial.

If running two lines, Id run Cat 6

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
G

Gunner Asch

Jan 1, 1970
0
Two comments:

Where I lived for a while Comcast was busy burying PVC tubing because they
were going to pull optical cable in a couple years. The existing cable
was 15 years old and having lots of trouble. It would be easy to pull the
coax in and then out for the optical stuff a bit later. No real extra expense
now and reasonable savings in the moderate future. It may have even allowed
them to use cheaper labor for the pipe burying and then the better technicians
only had to worry about purely electrical issues.

To go wireless between building there are various directional antennas that
can be used for fixed line of sight point to point. Treat that as an
alternate to cabling and only use regular (omnidirectional) wireless for
mobility within rooms and such.

http://www.binarywolf.com/249/
http://www.binarywolf.com/249/parabolic.htm
http://www.instructables.com/id/Uni-Directional-WIFI-Range-Extender/
http://www.binarywolf.com/249/pringles_cantenna.htm
http://www.binarywolf.com/249/pie-tin-antenna.htm

http://www.binarywolf.com/249/wrt54g-hacks.htm

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
My apologies to anyone with net-cop tendencies:

It's astonishing just how much I've grown to depend on network access.
I've been having wireless problems in my office (in a detached building)
for a couple of months, so I've been doing all my work from a laptop at
my kitchen table. Given that we home-school, this has been a very
distracting environment to try to work.

It's all sorted out now -- yippie! I have to organize 210 new-to-
Thunderbird email messages, but I can get datasheets on the web, I can do
my email, I can download programs and upgrade virus scans and all that
cool stuff!

The down side (other than two months of awkwardness) is that I bought a
router that I don't really need and wasted a bunch of time until I
figured out it was the access point. The upside is that I now have
wireless inside my shop building, for whatever good that'll do me.

Tee hee!

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
My apologies to anyone with net-cop tendencies:

It's astonishing just how much I've grown to depend on network access.
I've been having wireless problems in my office (in a detached building)
for a couple of months, so I've been doing all my work from a laptop at
my kitchen table. Given that we home-school, this has been a very
distracting environment to try to work.

It's all sorted out now -- yippie! I have to organize 210 new-to-
Thunderbird email messages, but I can get datasheets on the web, I can do
my email, I can download programs and upgrade virus scans and all that
cool stuff!

The down side (other than two months of awkwardness) is that I bought a
router that I don't really need and wasted a bunch of time until I
figured out it was the access point. The upside is that I now have
wireless inside my shop building, for whatever good that'll do me.

Look at the bright side. Now you can take your laptop and sit underneath
the apple tree outside when the weather is good. Whenever that might be,
it's freezing out here.

My advice: Run regular CAT-5. Much more reliable.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
Look at the bright side. Now you can take your laptop and sit underneath
the apple tree outside when the weather is good. Whenever that might be,
it's freezing out here.

My advice: Run regular CAT-5. Much more reliable.

That's what I'm considering doing. I've been through three wireless
access points and routers and none of them work worth a damn. I'm online
now because I'm sending ping keep-alives to the wireless router.

Part of it is interference from nearby networks and that problem will
only get worse as time goes on. I would have hoped they'd carve out the
high end of the TV spectrum for new hom wireless networking.

I'd need about 150 feet of Cat-5 to wire up the living room, dining
room, and the three bedrooms. And I think I'm going to do so because
it's cheaper than building a Faraday cage around the house.
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Look at the bright side. Now you can take your laptop and sit underneath
the apple tree outside when the weather is good. Whenever that might be,
it's freezing out here.

My advice: Run regular CAT-5. Much more reliable.

I'd have to run it outside, and I can't find listings for direct-burial
CAT-5 cable. Moreover, I understand that even underground runs have
ground-differential problems during a lightning strike.

If I could be confident that I'm not going to blow out everything on my
network, and that the buried cable would last for at least 10 years I'd
jump on it -- when I commisioned the garage-office all the "experts" I
asked said "use wireless".

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
T said:
That's what I'm considering doing. I've been through three wireless
access points and routers and none of them work worth a damn. I'm online
now because I'm sending ping keep-alives to the wireless router.

I don't remember where it was but I researched this quite a bit a while
ago and set the wireless to a sub-band that was not the default for much
other gear and away from microwave ovens, phones and such. Made it work.
However, the guys who built this house were extra good and insulated
every single room against the outside _and_ the other rooms using
aluminum-backed fiber. You can imagine what that does to the range. 50ft
at best, for a low to very low signal amplitude.

Part of it is interference from nearby networks and that problem will
only get worse as time goes on. I would have hoped they'd carve out the
high end of the TV spectrum for new hom wireless networking.

Most likely it'll go to the guys with the deepest pockets, cell phone
providers.

I'd need about 150 feet of Cat-5 to wire up the living room, dining
room, and the three bedrooms. And I think I'm going to do so because
it's cheaper than building a Faraday cage around the house.


It's hard if you want to do a clean job but worth it. Scraped my scalp a
lot underneath the house, from nails that didn't go in straight and were
left. A bit spooky, too, since you never know what else lives down
there. Luckily I did not encounter a rattlesnake. Oh, and definitely
take two lamps. You don't want to be at the far end of the crawl space
and the flashlight breaks. While at it I ran two CAT-5 to each location
plus two quad-shield coaxes.
 
T

Tam

Jan 1, 1970
0
T said:
That's what I'm considering doing. I've been through three wireless
access points and routers and none of them work worth a damn. I'm online
now because I'm sending ping keep-alives to the wireless router.

Part of it is interference from nearby networks and that problem will
only get worse as time goes on. I would have hoped they'd carve out the
high end of the TV spectrum for new hom wireless networking.
If you are still on the default channel (6), try something else, like 11.

Tam
 
N

Ned Simmons

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd have to run it outside, and I can't find listings for direct-burial
CAT-5 cable. Moreover, I understand that even underground runs have
ground-differential problems during a lightning strike.

The run between my office/shop and the house is cheapo cat-5 (Space
Shuttle brand <g> from ebay) buried in 3/4" black polyethylene water
line. I pulled it in 4 or 5 years ago as I pulled out the coax that
preceded it. The phone lines running in the same chase are interior
rated as well, and have been in use for almost 15 years. PVC conduit
bodies at both ends serve as pull boxes and a transition to PVC
conduit to enter the buildings. Regular nylon barb fittings connect
the poly pipe to the conduit bodies.
 
R

robert bristow-johnson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Given that we home-school,
....

do you home school out of necessity (like your local school is just
too crummy or too far away or the bullies there beat up your kid,
etc?) or out of conviction (damn evolutionists, homo sympathizers, and/
or libruls just keep trying to shove their Darwinism, inclusiveness,
or gun confiscatin', tax-and-spendin', pot leagalizin' philosophy down
the kids' throats) or for some other reason (e.g. you and spouse are
the best teachers you can get for your kids).

just curious, Tim. that's the chance you take when you reveal
something like that here.

bestest,

r b-j
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
...

do you home school out of necessity (like your local school is just too
crummy or too far away or the bullies there beat up your kid, etc?) or
out of conviction (damn evolutionists, homo sympathizers, and/ or
libruls just keep trying to shove their Darwinism, inclusiveness, or gun
confiscatin', tax-and-spendin', pot leagalizin' philosophy down the
kids' throats) or for some other reason (e.g. you and spouse are the
best teachers you can get for your kids).

just curious, Tim. that's the chance you take when you reveal something
like that here.

bestest,

r b-j

Both kids have typical engineering brains -- they're years ahead of grade
level in math & science, at or slightly below grade level at English, PE,
that sort of thing, and definitely below grade level in social
development.

Our local school district (Oregon City, OR), bent over backwards to
accommodate them, but we ended up taking pity on both the kids and the
district. There's a local charter school for 'home schooled' kids that
gives help & support; the kids get a mix of that, community college
classes, correspondence courses, and just plain ol' mom beating on the
kids to get their work done.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ned said:
The run between my office/shop and the house is cheapo cat-5 (Space
Shuttle brand <g> from ebay) buried in 3/4" black polyethylene water
line. I pulled it in 4 or 5 years ago as I pulled out the coax that
preceded it. The phone lines running in the same chase are interior
rated as well, and have been in use for almost 15 years. PVC conduit
bodies at both ends serve as pull boxes and a transition to PVC
conduit to enter the buildings. Regular nylon barb fittings connect
the poly pipe to the conduit bodies.
I've considered that, but I have visions of water condensing in the
thing, and over the years pooling.

Or am I borrowing trouble?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
G

Gordon Sande

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've considered that, but I have visions of water condensing in the
thing, and over the years pooling.

Or am I borrowing trouble?

Two comments:

Where I lived for a while Comcast was busy burying PVC tubing because they
were going to pull optical cable in a couple years. The existing cable
was 15 years old and having lots of trouble. It would be easy to pull the
coax in and then out for the optical stuff a bit later. No real extra expense
now and reasonable savings in the moderate future. It may have even allowed
them to use cheaper labor for the pipe burying and then the better technicians
only had to worry about purely electrical issues.

To go wireless between building there are various directional antennas that
can be used for fixed line of sight point to point. Treat that as an
alternate to cabling and only use regular (omnidirectional) wireless for
mobility within rooms and such.
 
N

Ned Simmons

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've considered that, but I have visions of water condensing in the
thing, and over the years pooling.

Or am I borrowing trouble?

I've wondered myself whether after all this time water has accumulated
in the low spots, but haven't had any problems. When I pulled in the
cat-5 cable there was no evidence of water in the line. It wouldn't be
difficult to seal the points where the cables exit the PVC conduit if
you're concerned about moisture condensing underground.
 
S

Steve Underwood

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ned said:
I've wondered myself whether after all this time water has accumulated
in the low spots, but haven't had any problems. When I pulled in the
cat-5 cable there was no evidence of water in the line. It wouldn't be
difficult to seal the points where the cables exit the PVC conduit if
you're concerned about moisture condensing underground.

You could pressurise it :)

Steve
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
I'd have to run it outside, and I can't find listings for direct-burial
CAT-5 cable. Moreover, I understand that even underground runs have
ground-differential problems during a lightning strike.

If I could be confident that I'm not going to blow out everything on my
network, and that the buried cable would last for at least 10 years I'd
jump on it -- when I commisioned the garage-office all the "experts" I
asked said "use wireless".

Yep, Terry Given can tell you a story about that. OTOH it'll be buried
in your case so the odds of lightning currents hitting the power line to
your office are just as high. Or higher if that comes off a pole
transformer. I have buried CAT-5 for other purposes. One just as is, the
other wrapped in electrical tape. Works fine, isn't used for the LAN but
goes to a controller where it directly meets 100V triacs.

For LAN you could wind yourself an extra set of iso transformers. Or go
with fiber.
 
V

Vladimir Vassilevsky

Jan 1, 1970
0
I haven't seen a laptop which could be used at the outside without
breaking your eyes.

Yep, Terry Given can tell you a story about that. OTOH it'll be buried
in your case so the odds of lightning currents hitting the power line to
your office are just as high. Or higher if that comes off a pole
transformer. I have buried CAT-5 for other purposes. One just as is, the
other wrapped in electrical tape. Works fine, isn't used for the LAN but
goes to a controller where it directly meets 100V triacs.

For LAN you could wind yourself an extra set of iso transformers. Or go
with fiber.

Well, if my understanding is correct the problem was with the
configuration, not with the wireless. I wonder why nobody yet blaimed at
Microsoft and Bill Gates, as it is customary in the cases like that.



Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
 
E

Ecnerwal

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Wescott said:
I'd have to run it outside, and I can't find listings for direct-burial
CAT-5 cable.

Use conduit (PVC, and use primer and cement on the joints) - it's cheap,
and you only have to dig the hole once. When 100 gigabit horsehair
becomes the next big thing in networking, pull out whatever is in there,
and pull in 100 gigabit horsehair - or 5 terabit spider silk, or
whatever the next thing is.
Moreover, I understand that even underground runs have
ground-differential problems during a lightning strike.

Fiber is the best option with lightning. Surge suppressors on the Cat-5
are OK if nearby lightning strikes are more something to be cautious
about than a guaranteed regular event. Using cheap switches at each end
is not really a lightning suppression strategy, but it's a lot cheaper
to fry those (sometimes the whole thing, sometimes only a port or two)
than to fry your actual equipment. Relevant only because they are
cheaper than ethernet surge suppressors are (odd but true, at least when
I shop.)
 
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