OT: Nitrogen filled tires

[John Larkin]

I would buy one of those.

How about an eccentric weight driving a tiny pump and regulator,
so that the bumps on the road keep the tire pressurized?

Or build the pump into those spinner hubcaps. Make the overpriced
bling bling even more overpriced.

I like that last one.

John

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.
"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Helium also has a very small molecule, which puts it right back in with
the problems associated with Oxygen. It leaks easier.

 

[Rich Grise]

What we need is a liquid, or a sublimating powder, that maintains a
constant vapor pressure for a long time, until it's all gone.

Or a small storage tank built into the wheel, filled to some absurd
pressure, or filled with a liquid like freon or CO2, with a regulator.
Such a tire wouldn't need air for its lifetime.

Or, just put a little socket for a CO2 cartridge; you'd just replace
the cartridge as needed, for about $.50 a pop.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

[email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air".
(Like the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/sugges
ting Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire
wear, reduced Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed
air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this,
or is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...?? Notice too that the
article does not mention any service stations so equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71
Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk in
that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're just
blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?e
ntryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.
"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

What we need is a liquid, or a sublimating powder, that maintains a
constant vapor pressure for a long time, until it's all gone.

Or a small storage tank built into the wheel, filled to some absurd
pressure, or filled with a liquid like freon or CO2, with a regulator.
Such a tire wouldn't need air for its lifetime.

why? you can get N2 for very low cost by using a membrane separator.
That's how many garages do it.
I Googled that one time to see how they get N2 for tire fills. Somebody
needs to make them for home compressors,at an affordable price. I have my
own portable compressor,runs off the car battery. ;-)

In the twilight years of my Dad's life, he needed oxygen; so we bought
a used "Oxygen Concentrator" for about $800.00. It used "moleular
sieve"; but they just let the N2 go. I was amazed - the O2 was better
than 99% O2.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.
"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

What we need is a liquid, or a sublimating powder, that maintains a
constant vapor pressure for a long time, until it's all gone.

How retarded to say that.

The whole idea behind using a gas filled bladder is the spring provided
by the compressibility of the gas!

Despite the fact that Howard Hughes proved that liquids are
compressible, for the purpose of this mechanism, they are absolutely NOT
so.

Or a small storage tank built into the wheel, filled to some absurd
pressure, or filled with a liquid like freon or CO2, with a regulator.
Such a tire wouldn't need air for its lifetime.

There are already tire pressure monitors and real time fill mechanisms
in use, idiot.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

I would buy one of those.

How about an eccentric weight driving a tiny pump and regulator,
so that the bumps on the road keep the tire pressurized?

Or build the pump into those spinner hubcaps. Make the overpriced
bling bling even more overpriced.

They wouldn't spin if they were under a load, and driving a compressor
would certainly load it.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

I like that last one.

Yet are obviously too stupid to see that it would not work.

The obvious one here is to incorporate it into the traverse mechanism
of the shock/spring pair as that has the most force enacted upon it, and
would get the most work done toward filling a surge tank with sufficient
pressure to maintain the tire fill levels.

 

[John Larkin]

Yet are obviously too stupid to see that it would not work.

You obviously have no imagination and no sense of humor. But of course
it could be made to work.

The obvious one here is to incorporate it into the traverse mechanism
of the shock/spring pair as that has the most force enacted upon it, and
would get the most work done toward filling a surge tank with sufficient
pressure to maintain the tire fill levels.

But that would need a rotating air coupling from the car to each of
the tires. At that point, you may as well use a small electric pump.

The spinny sparkley wheel cover thing rotates with the tire so needs
no rotating joint. It could even be done as an aftermarket kit, with a
shiny spinner assembly, a tiny pump/regulator, and a little tube
running to the filler cap. Granny could install that in 5 minutes.

Consider this a public disclosure for patant purposes. I graciously
donate the concept to the public domain, and acknowledge Guy Macon's
ideas as prior art.


Don't you ever have any fun?

John

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

But that would need a rotating air coupling from the car to each of
the tires. At that point, you may as well use a small electric pump.

Such things are already in use, dope. There is no need or efficiency in
generating the compressed air source right at the tire.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

The spinny sparkley wheel cover thing rotates with the tire so needs
no rotating joint.

Yes, it would. Think about it. It doesn't matter that it is on the
wheel, it would still have to couple through the hub.

It could even be done as an aftermarket kit, with a
shiny spinner assembly, a tiny pump/regulator, and a little tube
running to the filler cap.

Which would keep it from spinning. You defeated your own idea with the
reason it wouldn't work.

Granny could install that in 5 minutes.

You're an idiot.

 

[John Larkin]

Yes, it would. Think about it. It doesn't matter that it is on the
wheel, it would still have to couple through the hub.


Which would keep it from spinning. You defeated your own idea with the
reason it wouldn't work.



You're an idiot.

The pump part and filler tube would of course be fixed to the wheel.
The spinner part would, well, spin just like the ones you see on the
rice rockets. The relative motion would drive the pump. It would
require very little power to pump the small amount of air it would
take to keep a normal tire at full pressure.

Whenever I suggest something, you declare that it will not work; not
because you bother to think, but because you want to dispute anything
I say.

I *told* you I would have fun with this.

John

 

[krw]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.

How would Helium keep tires cooler? Where is the Helium going to
conduct heat to?

"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Makes the unsprung weight less too. ;-)

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

The pump part and filler tube would of course be fixed to the wheel.
The spinner part would, well, spin just like the ones you see on the
rice rockets. The relative motion would drive the pump. It would
require very little power to pump the small amount of air it would
take to keep a normal tire at full pressure.

Bullshit. One cubic cm of air at 60psi is like 30cm at ambient
pressure. Compression of air requires WORK, and those spinners ONLY spin
because there is no load on them. Otherwise, they would turn right along
with the wheel. And of course, we all know that a counterbalanced
assembly, which is what would be required to make it work right, would
not work on a wheel/tire assembly for obvious reasons.

The best answer is what I said before. The random motion of the
suspension will do lots of work, as it has the weight of the car behind
it.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Whenever I suggest something, you declare that it will not work; not
because you bother to think, but because you want to dispute anything
I say.

I *told* you I would have fun with this.

Absolutely not, jackass. I told you that you were wrong because you
ARE wrong. It will NOT work.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.

How would Helium keep tires cooler? Where is the Helium going to
conduct heat to?

"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Makes the unsprung weight less too. ;-)

Oh boy... a whole few ounces lighter.

 

[John Larkin]

Bullshit. One cubic cm of air at 60psi is like 30cm at ambient
pressure.

Wrong, as usual. One cubic cm of air at 60 psi (75 psia) is like 5
cubic cm at atmospheric (15 psia). Not that it matters here.

Compression of air requires WORK, and those spinners ONLY spin
because there is no load on them.

No, they spin, relative to the wheel, for two reasons: angular
acceleration and wind resistance. Both can deliver a substantial
amount of power, way more than it would take to pump a cubic inch or
so of air into a tire every day. WAY more.

Otherwise, they would turn right along
with the wheel.

Except that they don't.

John

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Except that they don't.

They sure do. Whenever their bearings even get a little bit cruddy,
they stop working correctly.

Face it, your idea will not WORK. It takes all of three grams of
pressure to keep them from spinning properly, so you are not going to
load them up with compressor mechanics and get them to work either.

 

[krw]

[email protected] wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.

How would Helium keep tires cooler? Where is the Helium going to
conduct heat to?

"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Makes the unsprung weight less too. ;-)

Oh boy... a whole few ounces lighter.

A vacuum is even lighter, Dimbulb. Just like your head.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

[email protected] wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.

How would Helium keep tires cooler? Where is the Helium going to
conduct heat to?

"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Makes the unsprung weight less too. ;-)

Oh boy... a whole few ounces lighter.

A vacuum is even lighter, Dimbulb. Just like your head.

Funny though, how the areas in my head that only "contain" a vacuum are
three orders of magnitude more intelligent than all 4 pounds of your gray
matter.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

[email protected] wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:34:07 -0700, mpm wrote:

Things seem pretty slow in SED today, so let's talk about "Hot Air". (Like
the kind in your tires.)

Every so often I read something like this:
http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/fleet_nitrogren_beats_air/suggesting
Nitrogenis better than air for improved mileage, lower tire wear, reduced
Global Warming, etc....

The trick is you fill your tires withNitrogeninstead of compressed air.

Huh?! Air is 78% (or so)Nitrogenanyway. Is there anything to this, or
is this a classic signal-to-noise problem...??
Notice too that the article does not mention any service stations so
equipped...

When I was in the USAF, at one point I worked on the SR-71 Blackbirdhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sr-71+blackbird%22

and they used drynitrogenin its tires. But the reason, they told me,
didn't have anything to do with gas mileage, it was so that when it
lands at about 300 MPH, the tires don't explode and burn. Hot rubber
and oxygen can get a little volatile.

But, for a car, the only difference I can think of would have to do
with condensation, and just using dry air should alleviate any risk
in that area.

IOW, if somebody's making a claim like that, and expecially[SIC] if
they're trying to sell you something (likenitrogen), then they're
just blowing smoke up your ears, so to speak.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Here's and idea where you can convert the air in yoyr tires to almost
100% nitrogen yourself:

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383

Better yet, use Helium!
It is the most thermally conductive gas, so it would keep the tires
cooler while driving - especially at high speeds.

How would Helium keep tires cooler? Where is the Helium going to
conduct heat to?

"Slight" disadvantage is that it diffuses out and so has to be
replaced frequently...

Makes the unsprung weight less too. ;-)

Oh boy... a whole few ounces lighter.

A vacuum is even lighter, Dimbulb. Just like your head.

A tire is a gas filled bladder. Said gas is the reason the tire has
its springiness, not the rubber, though the sidewall expansion, and
return flexure are part of it.

Even if you did have an idea, and proposed it, it would be total shit.
Of that fact, I am quite sure.