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OT: new PC catch-22

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Robert Baer, Dec 24, 2006.

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  1. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    Start with new (6-month old), bleeding edge stuff: motherboard, Intel
    D CPU, 80Gbyte hard drive, Sony DVD R/W, 500W supply, WinXP Pro.
    Major problems:
    1) "Intel uCode F1 to continue" no boot from the WinXP CD.
    2) Update BIOS to latest available (beta): the uCode error goes away; no
    3) Go into the BIOS setup, first screen: *nothing* recognized; Primary
    Master, Primary Slave,Seconsdary Master and Secondary Slave all have the
    same message, to the effect "nothing available".

    But, in booting up, there is a bit of screen fiddling, and the
    installed hard drive and DVD drive are listed as present.
    The DVD light has a very short blink after that, but the CD is not

    Now, the interesting part: plop in a PartitionMagic (bootable) CD,
    and that works!
    Understand, the PartitionMagic CD is old, way before Micro$uck
    thought of XP (2002).

    Seems to me that M$ has teamed with the BIOS and board makers to make
    sure that one cannot *install* WinXp from scratch on these new computers.

    But..if you happen to have a computer like that with WinXP installed,
    the WinXP is readable and can be used for updates, etc.

    How in the h*ll does one start from scratch?
  2. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    It's got nothing to do with MS if you're got a problem at that pioint.

    Duff mobo if you ask me.

  3. john jardine

    john jardine Guest

    On the other hand ... bought this motherboard a few months ago. Found I
    needed a new case as PCB mounting holes are now different.
    Still wouldn't work. Discover I needed to buy a 'new style' PSU with the
    extra power connector thingy. Then a 2 day waste of my life finding out it
    wouldn't run windows98. Discover it was designed for the damnable windows
    So, hardware had been designed for a particular micro (AMD) and a particular
    microshite OS. Nowhere were these details stated. The arrogant bastards
    assumption being that we're all non technical consumers, hence will buy and
    use whatever package they choose to offer us.
    Seems the only 'compatability' we are left with, is the ability to run ms
    progs. Aren't monopolies just the thing!.
  4. Mike Monett

    Mike Monett Guest

    Looks like this is the year for Linux. I won't buy any new computers
    unless they are guaranteed to run Linux with no problems. Also DOS:)


    Mike Monett

    Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
    SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
    Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  5. What I generally find is that the released linux kernel seems to be a
    few months behind the "bleeding edge" of motherboard
    chipsets. Although it always boots up OK, a motherboard-integrated
    peripheral might not work. After a couple of months there is a new
    kernel available and it too starts working. If you pick a motherboard
    with a chipset that has been out a while, there is no problem. (And it
    is likely cheaper and more stable).
    I use dosemu under linux (to run some old IAR dos compilers), works
    OK. In fact they seem much faster than under the "real" DOS, better
    filesystem performance perhaps.

    Then there are various virtualization systems such as xen, vmware etc.
  6. Mike Monett

    Mike Monett Guest

    Thanks for the good info, John. I'm already running Eagle on Suse
    with excellent results, and starting to think it might be time to
    convert everything else over to Linux.

    How do you back up your system in case of hard disk failure? Is
    there an equivalent to XCOPY32?

    What I'm looking for is to have a backup drive that I can install as
    Master and have it contain exactly what is on the original. The
    advantage of XCOPY32 is it doesn't waste time copying files that
    don't need updating, so the backup is very quick and you can afford
    to do it several times per day.


    Mike Monett

    Antiviral, Antibacterial Silver Solution:
    SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
    Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  7. Ahh, you make me laugh...

    If you think that MS could legally get away with matching their OS to
    a BIOS manufacturer then you are an idiot. IF you actaully think the
    MS gives a shit about what PC there OS is installed on then you are
    even more of an idiot.

    Beware of the inferior CD ROM. I have seen problems where the CDROM
    cant track out the the extreme edges of the CD, and depending on who
    cut the MS CD's there may be issues.

    Ring MS, and they will get you a new CD. Try that, if that fails then
    either your MOBO or CDROM is fucked, or something in between.

    Failing that,if you can live with it, download a <insert flavour here>
    Linux distro and install that. Chances are if its a new PC then some
    of the drivers wont exist, but they are never far away.
  8. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    ah now wait..
    There is a Utility the OEM guys use to write data in the FLASH portion
    of the CMOS., it is checked by the boot disk which contains the restore
    OEM Os on it. Not all use this scheme. updating the bios can destroy
    this data in many cases.
    Not sure if that is what's going on. i think a standard off the self
    NON upgrade should do it in any case.
  9. me

    me Guest

    could also be operator error.
  10. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    I was stunned when i saw that in the BIOS screen; figgured the BIOS
    was not up to snuff, so that is why i got the latest from the MB maker;
    even a newer beta version is better..but it was not good enough.

    Still, why does it boot from an old CD circa 2002 and not a new M$ CD?
  11. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    ..and i have heard that complaint before; seems one must (somehow)
    get an old MB to run old OSes.
    Wait for "vista" where most users will be forced to toss their
    hardware and get new hardware because the old hardware does not have all
    of the "support" that "vista" *demands*.
  12. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    The problem ther is that no reseller guarantees anything, and if the
    pile of metal they sell you does not work, then you pay for return.
    And they do not properly or fully test it and so it works for them
    because the setup and conditions are totally different.
    So you get back the same POS.

    This is exactly what has happened with the setup i mentioned in the
    query; *three* identical setups they were supposed tocheck, and they
    only checked one and failed to follow instructions.
    Of course they work using a hard drive with XP loaded; that was not
    the problem!
  13. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    1) I think i mentioned that the drive used was a recent (6 months old)
    issue by Sony and it was a DVD read/write.
    2) I had access to five sets of WinXP to work with, all straight from M$
    no intervening reseller.
    Hard to believe that M$ sells so many screwed up CDs.
    3) I believe i mentioned that the original BIOS gave problems, and that
    the *beta* update only solved one of them.
    That update was only a week old at worst.
    And the MB maker had a newer MB (about a week old) that was said to
    work properly, but the seller would not do an exchange; the MB maker
    only replaces MBs under a warantee basis and also will not exchange for
    the newer MB.

    And Linux will *not* support programs written for XP, programs that
    are not available any other way and no equivalent(s).
  14. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    *No* OEM OS..
    I made a DOS boot floppy, added the downloaded FLASH utility and the
    downloaded BIOS beta update; booted from the floppy and followed the
    yellow brick road.
    Are you saying that the utility may have messed something up in the BIOS?
  15. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    Two different people, three different times, no communications as to
    procedure used, and the *SAME* problem occured.
    Methinks you are incorrect.
  16. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    what i am saying is, people like DELL, Gateway etc.. at one time in the
    past and i don't know if they still do it? Use to load the Flash on the
    BIOS with additional info that their OEM restore CD would read on boot
    up or, if you try the install directly to see if the proper ID was
    in the Flash before it would let you install that OEM CD on the machine
    other wise, you couldn't use that CD in any other PC.
    Updating the Bios sometimes screwed this up.

    What you should try to do is this, if stated that you were able to
    create a boot able disk to install the bios update? Did you try to run
    run a CD driver and run the set up program from the CD at that time?
  17. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    Ahh.. Smell, E-Machines and HP were noted for that "proprietary"
    stuff; the hard drives were also "wired" and replacing one would give
    an unusable computer.
    These were "white box" units assembled from components bought from
    various sources (well, the box, video card, power supply, HD, DVD came
    from a different source than the "bundled" MB, CPU and RAM.
    I did think of trying a CD driver, but did not have the critical
    parts of the MSCDEX drivers (since it was DOS).
    I am pretty sure that would work.
    Now i am 500 miles away from the site where these problems exist.

    The CD driver scheme is an excellent idea, and i think i better
    e-mail that support to the friend i tried to help; that would make
    things much easier.

  18. I use the original 20 GB from a Etower 733 MHz computer with windows
    ME to test lots of motherboards, and has never refused to work. Each
    restore CDROM, on the other hand, looks for a certain emachines bios. I
    have collected a number of OEM restore disks for different brands and

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
  19. me

    me Guest

    I can't agree with that. I have run XP on machines from a 200 MHz
    Pentium up to 2.4 GHz P4s. Also dos and windows 3.1 on athlon 1.1 GHz and
    P4s. Also linux and lindows on same machines. (yes, too much free time)
    Though newer stuff does not ususally come with drivers for dos and older
    windows (95/98).
  20. Actually, you are quite wrong. Vista works just as well on current
    machines. The only thing is you cant run the new 'aero interface'
    unless you have a video card with a shitload of ram. No one really
    cares much because it is just marketing wank anyway.

    However, if you try run it up on your old P500 with 128mb ram then
    dont bother. Stick with win95 or linux.
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