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R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's a matter of respective priorities. IOW for each, the
first is mandatory, the second if they can be bothered to
get around to it.

Nah. The conservatives see society as an anthill, and the liberals
see it as a flower garden. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
C

Charles Schuler

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here is truth:

Conservatives want to control your life, but will let you keep your money.

Liberals want to control your money, but will let you keep your life.


Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live. They support ridiculous policies that would quickly turn off
the electricity and the oil supplies. They seldom have a clue as to what
keeps their lights on or their automobiles running.

Conservatives want to shift all the money to their camp. They seldom have
even a single care for disadvantaged folks and have a smug and nasty
tendency to label them with disparaging terms.

Shitty choice (between liberal and conservative), in my humble opinion. I
don't much care for either label and prefer to discuss politics with folks
who understand the scientific method and who like to analyze rather than
spout party line crap.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live.

That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite. My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich
 
R

R. Steve Walz

Jan 1, 1970
0
---------------------
Nonsense.
Conservatives want to keep your wages so low that you can never
afford to oppose thempolitically, invest your money and keep the
interest for themselves, and control your life by extracting monthly
tribute, rent/mortgage, for property that by birthright you should
have inherited.

-------------------------
Liberals want to take the money from the wealthy to disempower them,
and give it BACK to you who actually WORKED for it!

Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live. They support ridiculous policies that would quickly turn off
the electricity and the oil supplies.
---------------------
No, those are just alarmist lies that the rich tell you to frighten
you out of disempowering them. The rich are NOT the magical reason
why the lights stay on. You'd have to be an ignorant victim-boob-serf
to believe crap like that!

They seldom have a clue as to what
keeps their lights on or their automobiles running.
----------------------------
But they want to give the power back to you worker-victims. Are
you simply too stupid to accept it?

Conservatives want to shift all the money to their camp. They seldom have
even a single care for disadvantaged folks and have a smug and nasty
tendency to label them with disparaging terms.
------------------------------------
Yup. It's called organized crime, they just pay millions to keep the
people who own printing presses and TV stations from saying that!

Shitty choice (between liberal and conservative), in my humble opinion. I
don't much care for either label and prefer to discuss politics with folks
who understand the scientific method and who like to analyze rather than
spout party line crap.
----------------------------------
This delusion on your part indicates that the Right has successfully
brainwashed and terrified you out of voting against them. The Rich
pay vast fortunes to convince people that nothing they can do will
help them, and that everyone who says they will is lying. It's very
important to despirit the slaves.

-Steve
 
R

R. Steve Walz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite. My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich
------------------------------
You just delude yourself that you're "enlightened".

TRUE enlightened self-interest is embodied best in People's Democratic
Communism, which:

1) Equalizes everyone's inheritance at birth of their fair share of
the world built up by all our common ancestors,

2) Which protects the weak from being underpaid and under-advantaged
by the strong,

3) And which grants everyone who works at something we all decide
we want together an equal wage per hour that anyone can achieve and
which anyone can be as well-off as they want,

As long as they don't **** with anyone else's equal opportunity or
cheat anyone unfairly.

-Steve
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, no. I said that I "advocate" "enlightened self-interest." As to
whether I'm "enlightened" or not, I think, would depend on one's
definition of "enlightened."
TRUE enlightened self-interest is embodied best in People's Democratic
Communism, which:

1) Equalizes everyone's inheritance at birth of their fair share of
the world built up by all our common ancestors,

2) Which protects the weak from being underpaid and under-advantaged
by the strong,

3) And which grants everyone who works at something we all decide
we want together an equal wage per hour that anyone can achieve and
which anyone can be as well-off as they want,

As long as they don't **** with anyone else's equal opportunity or
cheat anyone unfairly.

Well, you seem to still be stuck on that "it's their responsibility
to feed me" mindset. Get over that, and it's a nice fantasy.

It is true, that it is the responsibility of whichever spirit I'm
the denial of, to undeny me, but that's about seven orders of
dimensionality divorced from the consensus reality.

I learn daily, in spades, that ranting at the oppressor just gives
them excuses for more oppression.

Your error, as I see it, is assuming that the oppressors are rational.

How do you stop an express train? Stand on the tracks and try to face
it down by sheer force of will? Of course not! You get squashed. You
stand alongside, and throw little rocks with intent to annoy the
wheels, and with any luck, derail it.

This is a metaphor, by the way.

Thanks,
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
---------------------
Nonsense.
Conservatives want to keep your wages so low that you can never
afford to oppose thempolitically, invest your money and keep the
interest for themselves, and control your life by extracting monthly
tribute, rent/mortgage, for property that by birthright you should
have inherited.

Nah. That's the nazis. Ordinary conservatives just want to make
sure that nobody's having any fun, since fun is a sin.

Well, yeah, this is a very noble ideal, but exhorting the monied
to do the right thing has been shown, repeatedly, for thousands of
years, to be futile. Sigh.
---------------------
No, those are just alarmist lies that the rich tell you to frighten
you out of disempowering them. The rich are NOT the magical reason
why the lights stay on. You'd have to be an ignorant victim-boob-serf
to believe crap like that!

Well, Yeah! Of course! So, are you, like I have been, still stuck on
the idea that exhortations could convince them to change their rapacious,
albeit profitable, ways?

I don't understand this bit. The liberals want to see the tables
turned, not realizing that there is a very serious risk of turning
oneself into that thing that one hates. Is that it?

Pretty much, yeah.
----------------------------------
This delusion on your part indicates that the Right has successfully
brainwashed and terrified you out of voting against them. The Rich
pay vast fortunes to convince people that nothing they can do will
help them, and that everyone who says they will is lying. It's very
important to despirit the slaves.

Well, the rich find themselves in the enviable position of controlling
all the resources. (BTW, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from
capitalizing "The rich". My name is Rich, and I'm not one of them.)

And de-spiriting the slaves is very, very easy for them, since they
have already stolen all of the resources that the slaves have access
to, except for Will.

And distribution of resources is trivial, in the face of institutionalized
murder.

Thanks,
Rich
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
[snip]

....
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich

AIUI, every time there's a major snowstorm up there in Minnes-Oh-ta,
about 9 months later this mini spike in the birth rate and mini
population explosion occurs. ;-)
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise said:
Rich said:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:04:53 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote: []
Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live.

That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite. My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich

No, no. I said that I "advocate" "enlightened self-interest." As to
whether I'm "enlightened" or not, I think, would depend on one's
definition of "enlightened."
TRUE enlightened self-interest is embodied best in People's Democratic
Communism, which:

1) Equalizes everyone's inheritance at birth of their fair share of
the world built up by all our common ancestors,

2) Which protects the weak from being underpaid and under-advantaged
by the strong,

3) And which grants everyone who works at something we all decide
we want together an equal wage per hour that anyone can achieve and
which anyone can be as well-off as they want,

As long as they don't **** with anyone else's equal opportunity or
cheat anyone unfairly.

Well, you seem to still be stuck on that "it's their responsibility
to feed me" mindset. Get over that, and it's a nice fantasy.

It is true, that it is the responsibility of whichever spirit I'm
the denial of, to undeny me, but that's about seven orders of
dimensionality divorced from the consensus reality.

I learn daily, in spades, that ranting at the oppressor just gives
them excuses for more oppression.

Your error, as I see it, is assuming that the oppressors are rational.

How do you stop an express train? Stand on the tracks and try to face
it down by sheer force of will? Of course not! You get squashed. You
stand alongside, and throw little rocks with intent to annoy the
wheels, and with any luck, derail it.

Sounds a lot to me like what Bin Laden did/does. :-/
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
[snip]
Thanks,
Rich

Rich, Rich, Rich, goes to the beach.
Bitch, bitch, bitch, about the sand.

....
With a knick, knack, paddy whack, Give the dog a bone;
This old man came rolling home.

Eh..
 
C

Charles Schuler

Jan 1, 1970
0
You'd have to be an ignorant victim-boob-serf
to believe crap like that!
Are
you simply too stupid to accept it?


This delusion on your part indicates that the Right has successfully
brainwashed and terrified you out of voting against them.

Three "personal" slams and you are out, my friend!
 
C

Charles Edmondson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite. My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich
AH-HA, so Rich, you are a Rational Anarchist! (Heinlein - "Moon is a
Harsh Mistress") Good, we need more of us... :cool:
 
M

Mark Fergerson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Nah. The conservatives see society as an anthill, and the liberals
see it as a flower garden. ;-)

So, the former want to feed us sugar water and the latter
bullshit? Sounds about right.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise wrote: ....
AH-HA, so Rich, you are a Rational Anarchist! (Heinlein - "Moon is a
Harsh Mistress") Good, we need more of us... :cool:

Unfortunately, it seems that there aren't enough of us to swing an
election! )-;

Thanks,
Rich
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
exhorting the monied to do the right thing
has been shown, repeatedly, for thousands of years, to be futile.
Rich Grise

Not entirely accurate. In the not-so-distant past,
there was a concept called "noblis oblige" (nobility obligates)
where the richest guy in town was also the most generous,
using his money and influence to promote the general welfare.
The sharpest guys realized that if it wasn't for the serfs, little would get done.
http://www.google.com/search?&q=noblis-oblige

This social pressure (along with social graces??) has fallen by the wayside,
it appears.
I'm wondering how far the divide will have to get
before the Poor realize that the Wealthy are edible.
 
T

Terry Given

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dennis said:
No, registration for the draft is mandatory, and only for men.
The draft itself is inactive. No one is being drafted NOW.

But Kerry proposed mandatory service for all high school students.
And Democrat Rep. Charles Rangel of NY pushed a bill in Congress
for mandatory military service.

Forced servitude to the state is a common thing in socialist countries,
so it is no surprise that the Democrats are pushing it.




I see no meaning in your response.

Is Israel a socialist country?

Cheers
Terry
 
T

Tom MacIntyre

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is Israel a socialist country?

Just because something is a common thing in socialist countries, does
that mean that it can't happen in non-socialist countries? Is it the
defining thing that makes a country socialist?

Tom
 
T

Tom MacIntyre

Jan 1, 1970
0
How do you stop an express train? Stand on the tracks and try to face
it down by sheer force of will? Of course not! You get squashed. You
stand alongside, and throw little rocks with intent to annoy the
wheels, and with any luck, derail it.

You just brought back a memory...I was working on the weekend for
Canada's national TV broadcaster, the CBC...it was the IWK Telethon
(that's a children's hospital in my province, and this telethon is
tied in with the Children's Miracle Telethon)...then, those video
shots from China...Tienemen Square...the single student facing down a
tank...

Tom
 
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