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Osram Sylvania Dura-One A19 Lamp

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Victor Roberts, Jul 14, 2007.

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  1. I finally have some self-ballasted A19 electrodeless
    fluorescent lamps operating in my house. These are the
    Osram Sylvania Dura-One lamps.

    See:

    http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003683538

    The Dura-One reflector is an improvement over the GE Genura
    that has been on the market for over 10 years, but the A19
    is truly new.

    As an ex-GE guy who worked most of his career on
    electrodeless lamps of one form or another it is somewhat
    sad to see the first A19 electrodeless product come from
    Osram Sylvania, but they did a great job! Now we just have
    to get the size of the ballast down so that it fits into the
    screw base.

    As far as I know the vision for an A19 electrodeless
    fluorescent lamp was developed by John Anderson at the GE
    Research Lab, now GE Global research, way back in about
    1967. It has taken 40 years for this product to make it to
    the market. Sad.

    I took two of the lamps over to John's house today and he
    was pleased to see that his original idea (or so I believe)
    had finally become a reality.

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
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    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
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    site without written permission.
     
  2. TKM

    TKM Guest

    I share your sentiments, Vic; but I'm glad that John Anderson was pleased to
    see some competitive additions to the product line at last. I've always
    viewed these small electrodeless lamps as niche products for fairly
    sophisticated large users who have miles of hallways with R30 downlights or,
    now, acres of bar/restaurant areas with reflector type accent, wall washers
    or downlights. The relatively flat light output over a broad temperature
    range says they can be used outdoors too.

    Terry McGowan
     
  3. JohnR66

    JohnR66 Guest

    Cool! I'd think the driver circuit would be similar to a standard CFL, but
    with the secondary of the transformer being the ionized gas. I'd imagine the
    frequency is much higher though. I can't see this remaining more expensive
    than a regular CFL unless some exotic RF transistor has to be used. Many
    advantages over regular CFL for sure. Without cathode fall, I'd expect
    efficency to be higher.

    Hopefully I'll eventually be able to get them in a 6 pack for $12 like I can
    regular CFL. Sounds like they're aiming for commercial use.

    How's the RF noise? Did you try various radio receivers to check
    interferance?

    John
     
  4. Correct, except for the higher operating frequency.
    It operates in a special frequency band that has been set
    aside for electrodeless lamps: 2.51 to 3.0 MHz. See CISPR
    15 or FCC Part 18.
    Well, in addition to needing faster transistors, it also
    needs to have shielding around the ballast circuit,
    something that is not used in conventional CFLs, and the
    ferrite used in the lamp drive coil is larger than
    transformer that would be used for a conventional CFL.
    However, this is offset by the fact that the bulb can be
    made on high speed equipment that is very similar to A-line
    (GLS) equipment. So, in the end many of us believe that
    costs can be competitive or even lower.
    The ferrite losses do tend to balance the end losses in a
    conventional CFL. However, fluorescent lamp technology is
    "energy density limited" which means that as you try to dump
    more power into a smaller volume, the efficacy goes down.
    That's why higher power CFLs are physically larger. One
    advantage of electrodeless operation is that it can use the
    available volume more efficiently.

    One other advantage of electrodeless operation is that life
    is not limited by the number of on/off cycles. While I was
    at GE we operated some early electrodeless lamps well over 1
    million cycles with no degradation.

    In the past 40 years we have learned how to operate
    electrodes in modes that limit the starting damage. But
    these methods, such as programmed start or programmed rapid
    start, require up to 1 second to heat the electrodes if
    starting damage is to be fully minimized. With
    electrodeless operation you get truly instant on operation
    with no degradation due to starting. This would be very
    important in some frequently switched applications such as
    bathrooms, hallways and stairs.
    Perhaps. But even today, high quality conventional CFLs
    sell for far more than $2 each.
    Not yet.

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
     
  5. Bob

    Bob Guest

    But.... The most important question.... Where can we buy them?
     
  6. JohnR66

    JohnR66 Guest

    Thank you for keeping an interested layman knowledgeable!
    I can't wait to get my hands on one of these lamps. Hopefully they show up
    in my neck of the woods soon.

    I have to disagree with you on one point: The quality of cheap CFLs I've
    been using have been flawless. These are the 13 to 14 watt mini spiral CFLs.
    I have one that is rated for 6,000 hours still operates after 3 years of
    continuous duty. Many have surpassed rated life yet none have failed. Single
    packaged, these cost $4-6, but can be bought for as low as 2$ per lamp in a
    multi-pack. Rated output is equales a 60w standard incandescent and lumen
    mantenance is very good.

    I would agree that one should avoid the single packaged lamp that sell for
    $2 in the dollar store. They are not so good.

    John
     
  7. If you Google "Dura-One A19" you will find a few sources,
    but at this early date no one I have found is selling less
    than 1 case of 6 lamps. (Many places sell individual
    Dura-One reflector lamps, since they have been available
    longer.) The lowest price I could find for a case of 6
    Dura-One A19 lamps was about $98 at GoodMart.

    http://www.goodmart.com/products/835231.htm

    Note that the lamps are a bit longer than a convention A19
    so they may not fit in all A19 fixtures. You can blame this
    on the ballast if you like :)

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
     
  8. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Can you look at one of them and get the FCC ID off of it. I wanted to look
    it up and see what frequency they operate at - I have a hard time believing
    it's the normal ~50 KHz given that they appear to be radiating through the
    gas mix, rather than setting up an arc through it. I don't seen anything
    really recent under Osram / Sylvania.
     
  9. I don't know what you mean by "radiating through" instead of
    "setting up an arc." The time varying magnetic field in the
    ferrite core creates an electric field that drives the
    mercury-rare gas discharge. Other than the manner in which
    the electrical power is transmitted from the ballast to the
    discharge, the lamp operates like any other fluorescent
    lamp.

    Lamps of this type normally operated near 2.65 MHz. The
    band set aside for electrodeless lamps in CISPR 15 and FCC
    Part 18 is 2.51 to 3.0 MHz. I'm sure this was discussed
    earlier in this thread.

    The FCC ID is not clearly marked. The lamp has both an FCC
    and UL logo. The following is printed below the two logos:
    "Listed 7B11." However, this does not look like a current
    FCC ID number.

    The bulb itself has the following code printed upside down:

    HO7 13 18 1459

    The second character may be either an O or an 0.

    This may be only a date code or perhaps it is the FCC ID,
    but it does not return any results at fcc.gov.

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
     
  10. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest


    Oh joy, in sickly pinkish-yellow 2700K. I will love to buy some of
    these if they come out in 3500K or 4200K.

    Really cool tech. though. Hats off to those who developed this.



    --
    Good day!

    ________________________________________
    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
     
  11. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest


    I think you can buy singles here:

    http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4595_11642

    --
    Good day!

    ________________________________________
    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
     
  12. JohnR66

    JohnR66 Guest

    Good god! That's expensive. Consumers will never buy them at this price!
    Let's hope they can get the price down while keeping quality high.
    John
     
  13. The link you gave is for the R30 version, not the A19.

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
     
  14. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest

    Oops.


    --
    Good day!

    ________________________________________
    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
     
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