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F

Frank Bemelman

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Fields said:
---
If the stupidity accompanying the danger was monumental enough to
make the danger invisible, then I agree.

But, for instance, flying the space shuttle is dangerous and has
been totally fucked more than once, but I wouldn't hand out Darwin
Awards to those astronauts who lost their lives.

Not yet ;)
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
Then why are you so upset?

I am not upset. But it is clear you have no ability
to support what you have said with facts, so you
engage in diversion.

Ed
Your position precludes encouraging them to fight, because
*you* judge the situation grim. You seem to think that we
"make" the patient think one way or another. Quoting you:

"A few messages ago I said:
"Or is it that I have another definition of "fighting", in this
context. I assumed we referred to will power etc here. IMO it's an
insult to make patients believe this is an important factor,
almost turning it into a cheap contest, where a looser is a true
looser."

End quote.


Why didn't you quote this:

Frank, you haven't got a fucking clue. Take care of some


Thanks. I don't need your kind of wisdom.

[snip]
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Bemelman said:
"ehsjr" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:aNDXf.1677$lz3.1245@trndny05...
Listen up buddy. I *NEVER* said that you should approach them
with a "you're gonna die" attitude. I simply say - and *NOTHING*
more - that when a situation is very grim, you should *not* tell
them that "fighting" will improve their chances greatly.

From http://www.blochcancer.org/guide/guidesupp.htm

"Be totally honest with any discussions. Never lie or state anything that is
not a fact. For example, never say, "I know you are going to get well." You
can't possibly know that."

and

"Don't give advice on new treatments and certainly don't recommend
alternative therapies such as laetrile, macrobiotic diets, etc. No two cases
of cancer are the same. No two people are the same. Treatments, side effects
or results for one patient can be completely different for another."

Not that I need pages on Internet to know what is right/wrong, thank god I
have a
brain myself.
 
Frank said:
Right - if the chances are poor. I consider the chances of
recovering from lung/liver cancer very poor.

He doesn't have lung or liver cancer, he has colon cancer, with
matastasies to liver and lungs. It's an important distinction, because
the cancer's behavior is determined by the cells that originally gave
rise to it. Those are the cells that have travelled and taken root,
causing new tumors elsewhere.

My g.f.'s granny had colon cancer with matastasies to her liver,
years ago, and was given 6 months to live, assuming treatment. She
preferred not to be treated, lasted three years nonetheless, and was in
decent shape for most of that.

My g.f. says her granny was a tough old bird who simply wasn't ready
to go. She was annoyed at the doctor's death sentence, and determined
to prove him wrong. She was old though--mid 80's--wearied, and passed
later, when she was darn good and ready.


Give hope, but not false hope.


Right. The fact is Jim's kid is in a hellua fix, however, it is also
a fact that well-supported non-stressed people recover from
standardized wounds 9 days faster than age-matched Alzheimer's
care-givers. Fearful patients going into surgery have much higher
infection rates (don't have the figures handy). Attitude makes a huge
difference.

My mom's seen it all -- she's been treating cancer patients nearly as
long as Jim's been designing electronics. She often reports that
patients who are involved in and participate in their care fare *much*
better. Often, she spots them, and knows who'll do well and who won't.
Patients who merely show up to be worked on, passively, like bringing
their car to a mechanic, don't do as well. Patients who are distraught
don't fare as well.

Why? Poorly understood, of course. Scads of hard science shows fear
and distress measureably and dramatically suppress immune function,
while prayer, meditation, and visualization improve it. Maybe that's
why. Or maybe not. But it's real.

The upshot is that Jim's kid *can* improve his chances a lot simply
by choosing to.

Heartfelt best wishes to Jim and family,

James Arthur
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 3 Apr 2006 14:34:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]
The upshot is that Jim's kid *can* improve his chances a lot simply
by choosing to.

Heartfelt best wishes to Jim and family,

James Arthur

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
 
D

David DiGiacomo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fearful patients going into surgery have much higher
infection rates (don't have the figures handy).

That's just a correlation.

As I said before, maybe the fearful patients can sense that they are
sicker than the more confident ones.
Attitude makes a huge difference.

I don't see any basis for this conclusion in the above correlation.
What's your basis for claiming causation?
Scads of hard science shows fear
and distress measureably and dramatically suppress immune function ...

What's your basis for favoring this over the alternative explanation that
suppressed immune function causes fear and distress? (Or that some as-yet
unidentified factor causes both.)

Is there really a way to do a double blind study where random patients are
distressed or reassured to see how they survive surgery?
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chuck said:
Cool, but entirely unsupported by peer review, or any other scientific
process.

-Chuck

Check the references section, and look up the meaning of "synthesis"- it
is understood to be hypothetical but plausible scientific conjecture in
some things and strong observation of experimental results in others.
The subject matter is mainstream science. Unconvinced? Go take a leap.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Cool, but entirely unsupported by peer review, or any other scientific
process.

-Chuck

Personally I'm a non-believer, but who's to say... half the prayer
groups in Phoenix have been activated by our many friends.

Duane went home yesterday, started chemo today.

Now asking my wife/his mother to make all the home-cooked things...
real beef burritos, etc ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nobody has commented on the _oscillator_ ;-)

...Jim Thompson

OK. I don't like railing U5, because it may do funny things to the
delay around the loop, and waste power... some opamps get weird when
you do this. And the diode hard clipping creates more distortion than
you'd get if you soft-clipped the tops of the feedback but left it
sorta sinusoidal.

I'd expect that you might get more distortion, especially 2nd
harmonic, in real life, as compared to the sim.

You did ask.

I should post my 1-transistor, low-distortion, super-amplitude-stable
oscillator, which I did as a kid, for the Boresight Alignment System
on the C-5A.

John
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:02:09 -0700, John Larkin

[snip]
I should post my 1-transistor, low-distortion, super-amplitude-stable
oscillator, which I did as a kid, for the Boresight Alignment System
on the C-5A.

John

Please do ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
David said:
That's just a correlation.

As I said before, maybe the fearful patients can sense that they are
sicker than the more confident ones.

Yes, of course. One supposes that competent clinicians are competent
enough to anticipate this objection and compare outcomes between
patients in similar condition, eliminating your concern.
I don't see any basis for this conclusion in the above correlation.
What's your basis for claiming causation?

The section you quoted below was the basis, as well as the data from
my mom. I don't expect *you* to believe her reports -- you don't know
her. I do. She's sharp, and she's treated god knows how many cancer
patients these past 30 years. That's what she does.
What's your basis for favoring this over the alternative explanation that
suppressed immune function causes fear and distress? (Or that some as-yet
unidentified factor causes both.)

That's certainly an appealing explanation. With any illness, of
course distress and anxiety are natural; people who overcome these are
the exception. They have better outcomes.
Is there really a way to do a double blind study where random patients are
distressed or reassured to see how they survive surgery?

Standardized questionaires could easily be used to assess anxiety.
One study compared patients' wound-healing with and without relaxation
training prior to surgery.

Here's some info on effect of stress on wound-healing:
http://www.google.com/search?q=wound healing days

Exercise helps too:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/exereld.htm

Stress affects lizards too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16188256&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum
which hypothesizes: when psychologically stressed, energy is diverted
from the immune system (fact), presumably to make it available for a
hasty escape (hypothesis).

Being presumptuous, we presume that lizards do not predict, rejoice,
or lament their impending fates.

Also, note that wound-healing, like recovering from cancer, is an
immune response.

I recall a year or so ago it was reported that exercising breast
cancer survivors had stunningly lower recurrance rates. I'm personally
curious to know whether that'll turn out to be due either to the
exercise iitself, or vitamin D obtained thereby. (A credible guy on
National Public Radio mused not long ago that vitamin D deficiency is
more common than thought, and believes this contributes to a large
number of cancers.)


Sorry for the late reply ... I missed your post.

Best,
James Arthur
 
T

Terry Given

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
On 3 Apr 2006 14:34:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]
The upshot is that Jim's kid *can* improve his chances a lot simply
by choosing to.

Heartfelt best wishes to Jim and family,

James Arthur


Thanks!

...Jim Thompson

Oh ****, Jim, I just read this thread, and wept.

I cannot offer my prayers as I do not believe in deities, but please
know that my thoughts are with you and your family.

I am impressed with many of the comments though; on the whole, engineers
are a smart bunch of people.

Regards,
Terry
 
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