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Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Jim Thompson, Mar 29, 2006.

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  1. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Jim,
    That is a great support network. Often the spouse of a cancer patient
    needs even more care than the patient, they tend to worry a lot more.
    Sometimes my wife and I jump in here in the neighborhood when such
    families don't have nearby relatives. It's pretty easy for us since all
    our folks are far away.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  2. Excellent news!

    Jon
     
  3. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Frank,

    Believe me, it sure does have a lot to do with it. We work in a ministry
    which means we see a lot of folks in hospitals or drive them to their
    chemo sessions, and usually it's the really serious cases. A positive
    attitude can be the ticket to health.

    True.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  4. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    People who've never been out of Europe don't understand "spirit" or
    "moxie" or "chutzpah" or whatever you call it ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  5. What I wanted to say - between the lines - I am not in favour of
    all that positive "You can do it" talk. Save the chutzpah for the
    occasion where you break both kneecaps and have to learn to walk
    again. Of cource, I'm no doctor, and I don't know any details, but
    I don't see much point in encouraging to 'fight' a battle that is
    practically impossible to win. It only gives them the idea that
    they failed (again) slipping away at the end of their struggle.
    Perhaps (perhaps!) it's more pleasant to talk about daily stuff,
    all the good memories, rather than mindless pep talk alone.
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Guest

    Sorry to hear it Jim.

    Just lost my Mother last week. But somehow that seems more "natural" than
    kids having problems like that.

    Robert
     
  7. No, I don't believe you. What about patients that are not so positive and
    miraciously recover? Any doctor can give examples of that. I am just
    reluctant
    to give them the "You can do it" mantra for 24 hours a day. Simply being
    there
    to offer help and to be pleasant company, provide a cushion for their mood
    swings, sharing thoughts, seem the best thing can do under such
    circumstances.
     
  8. Ian

    Ian Guest

    My sympathies as well.

    Regards
    Ian
     
  9. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    All of the data is not yet in until you undergo therapy. The chemo
    treatment may make for immediate improvement in the tumor situation, in
    which case you want to stick with it. If the treatment is slow going and
    not very effective in reducing the tumors then there may other factors
    you would want to consider. If quality of life is important then several
    years of therapy and additional life that turns you into an abomination
    constantly feeling ill with reduced mental faculties is not worth it to
    some people. The main thing is to exhaust the reasonable possibilities
    for effective treatment and, if it comes down to it, make a reasonable
    assessment of the threshold for declaring exhaustion. An acquaintance of
    mine recently died of this exact same cancer. He was in total denial
    right up to going into his final morphine delirium and death, it was
    pitiful.
     
  10. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    We ARE doing the latter, there is no rah, rah, rah stuff. My remark
    was based on my noticing a sudden change in his attitude... "I can
    handle this".

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  11. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Frank,
    You need both. Being there is, of course, priority number one. In Jim's
    son's case there seems to be an abundance of such care which is great.
    But fighting is the other part of the game. A close relative made it
    against all the odds, given that she had a 5% "statistical" chance of
    surviving the first six months. This number wasn't just based on some
    phony study with 10 patients or so but on many years of underwriter's
    data, thousands of cases. Her first word after that bomb shell from the
    doctor was "I am going to fight this". We all researched the case up and
    down the web, found specialists, treatments whether covered by insurance
    or not. Well, it's been five years now and she is healthy.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  12. That is fantastic for her, that the magic words "I am going to fight
    this" worked. Bit of a shame it doesn't seem to work for everyone.
    And strange that folks who don't "fight" so strong can also magically
    recover.

    I would think these things just happen, all in agreement with the
    5% statistic chances etc. I have no other explanation for it. The
    true explanation is perhaps some genetic advantage which gives you
    better results of various treatments.

    Or is it that I have another definition of "fighting", in this
    context. I assumed we referred to will power etc here. IMO it's an
    insult to make patients believe this is an important factor,
    almost turning it into a cheap contest, where a looser is a true
    looser. Like I said earlier, a good deal of pep talk is nice for
    someone with two broken knees, to encourage the person to learn
    to walk again. But when chances are so bleak, the choice to fight
    should be made by the patient alone and not being pushed by family
    and relatives. It is not up to others to demand miracles, as this
    only adds to the patients grief, a feeling that he has dissapointed
    his loved ones by not being able to perform as requested. In a way,
    the loved ones have a battle to fight here as well, to show respect
    rather than making a patient believing it is largely a matter of
    will power and "fighting".
     
  13. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Frank,
    Well, if you don't believe me ask a few docs. My wife and I are visiting
    lots of folks in convalescent homes. Some will never go home, some are
    there to recover from a huge problem. There are some who have resigned,
    who do not take therapy serious, just hang there and worry all day. Then
    there are others who are eager to leave, they exercise with gusto and
    spread around a positive attitude. For some reasons it's those folks who
    typically make it home in under a month.

    Even the Romans knew that body and state of mind go together: "Mens sana
    in corpore sano".

    Regards, Joerg
     
  14. Yes, but we are not talking about cancer patients here, are we.
    I don't deny that relationship, but it isn't the universal answer
    for everything.
     
  15. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Frank,
    Breast cancer (lots), skin cancer, other cancers, bad cases of heart
    failure, broken hips in old age, and so on. It runs the gamut.
    It isn't. But without a positive attitude it is harder to recover from
    anything.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  16. Joseph2k

    Joseph2k Guest

    Absolutely. Laughter and other forms of happiness are powerful medicine.
    May not do much to cure this, but can make a huge difference in perception.
     
  17. Assuming there is a mind-body connection, how can you figure out what is
    cause and what is effect? Maybe the people who have a positive attitude
    can somehow sense that they are going to recover, or maybe they just feel
    better because of something in the physical state of their bodies. The
    others may somehow know that they are too sick, or they may just feel
    worse.
     
  18. Okay, but those cancers are a *LOT* less agressive than liver or lung
    cancer. Here you mention cancers that already have a 80+ or better
    chance of surviving. So I am telling you again, the chance of surviving
    cancer has very little to do with 'fighting'. You just proved it
    yourself. Now be a good man and stop yelling and telling that folks
    with (liver/lung etc) cancer need to fight their deseases. Nobody
    is helped with false hope and shameless lies. Try to understand that.
     
  19. Guest

    My prayers are with you and your family,

    Watch the spouse too. If they are a true team, she'll need just as
    much help as he does
    Make sure she has a outside life away from the hospital, I know thats
    difficult, especially to pry her away from his bedside,
    but she'll need exercise of all types, mental, physical and social.
    Dont let her get so involved that she has no life.

    After watching my mom nearly come completely apart when dad passed
    after 7 years in the nursing home
    from a paralytic stroke after a bypass, it must be done. Mom insisted
    on being at that nursing home 14 out of 24, 7-365
    volunteering at feeding 3 meals a day, and not just with dad. Plus she
    handled ALL the medicade paperwork and drove 30 miles
    a few times a month to battle it out with the social workers and
    insurance. Mom considered herself "ON CALL" at all times.
    resulting in zero personality and much anger whenever a aide or nurse
    made even the simplist mistake. More then once I was down there and
    heard on the PA,
    " Mrs Roberts has left the building".

    I admire her strength, and helped her when I could, but what happened
    next was very ,very, dark.

    Mom suddenly had no where to go one day after hospice, and crashed,
    physically and mentally.
    It took me a year to get her to even travel across town or discuss the
    weather..
    All she'd talk about was the struggle with dad, which turned off family
    and friends fast.
    Wouldnt go to church, the mall or a movie,or see friends,or her
    physician.
    I hate to be the ghost of Xmas past, but DON'T loose #2 (or 3 or 4)
    in the process of helping #1.
    Prevent possible severe depression and possible martyrdom. That goes
    for you too. Get somebody ouside your close support system to
    periodically
    get you out of there,check what your doing and dont close the home
    lab down. Keep posting here.

    She's coming around now, at almost 2 years, but it was scarry.

    best wishes for a hopeful outcome.

    Steve Roberts
     
  20. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    [snip]

    Family support system already in motion.

    Also: My son will go home tomorrow. He's ambulatory, and will go to
    a local doctor's office for chemo... they outfitted him with a "port"
    in his chest (I haven't seen it yet), to allow "normal" living,
    showering, etc.

    Biopsy samples were finally taken from liver and lungs today, but we
    don't yet know the results.

    Thanks for your support!

    ...Jim Thompson
     
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