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Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Jim Thompson, Mar 29, 2006.

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  1. Chuck Harris

    Chuck Harris Guest

    Michael A. Terrell wrote:
    here with my dad.)
    Michael's post reminds me of a couple of other things:

    1) if your son gets into a remission stage, do not just sit and wait
    out the time. He must continue with aggressive treatments! If my dad
    had done this, he would have boosted his odds of survival considerably.

    Just because the cancer isn't being expressed anywhere, and the tumors aren't
    visible doesn't mean the little buggers are dead! It only takes a *single*
    fetal cell of the right type to start the whole process over again.

    There are at least two types of fetal cells. One is simply a tumer builder,
    it grows without bounds, and begs the body for blood supply. The other is
    a colonizing cell. It prepares a site for colonization. These are the
    really dangerous fellas. It is also the area where the vaccines are showing
    the most promise.

    2) pain killers: pain killers are generally given on a self dosage system.
    the patient decides how much, and how often. A cancer sufferer can handle
    a dosage of morphine that would kill a normal person. It is like the stuff
    gets actually metabolized by the pain. You have far greater worries than
    addiction, and stuff like that.

    3) the chemo is a tremendous pain reliever. Within minutes of the start
    of a dose, the pain melts off. When the chemo is suspended for a couple
    weeks, the pain starts to ramp back up.

    -Chuck
     
  2. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    Chuck, Good points!

    We've already noted the pain killer effect with self-doseage.

    Being an engineer, he keeps a diary of what he's taking ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  3. First, I feeling sorry with Jim's son.

    From my second hand experiences with the so
    called palliative treatment, well ... this is crap.

    In two cases close to me these measures were applied
    and they were just makeing them feel well while
    otherwise they'd have had infinite pain from cancer.
    So good this far. Less good was that each shot of
    morphine was much more expensive than a steet dose
    of the usual street drugs. IMO, palliative medicine
    is an organized rip off, to be had much better and
    cheaper in the lower quarters of almost every city.
    But since the bill is sent to the insurance, none
    cares.
    With morhine, death is just days away.

    Rene
     
  4. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I don't think morphine is used anymore.

    My son is presently taking oxycodone and something else with a similar
    name that I didn't fully catch.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  5. Possibly hydrocodone.

    Watch out for versions of the two which include tylenol, since you
    mentioned a liver issue here. Tylenol is processed through four
    pathways in the liver. The primary pathway is relatively safe but is
    overwhelmed by about 1 gram spread out over a day in a healthy adult.
    The three alternate pathways are destructive to the liver and they are
    increasingly used when the primary pathway is exhausted. Hospitals
    and literally awash with tylenol because it lacks some complications
    they are worried about with other drugs they often use. But they will
    use it without telling you -- for example, to make a child groggy
    before an operation they will add the verset (itself, something that
    demolishes short term memory) to a pink elixir of tylenol. You won't
    be told about the tylenol, just the verset, though. So unless you
    ask, you won't know.

    In any case, when I last investigated these details some years ago, I
    discovered that there were three research centers which were then
    currently studying tylenol's operation on humans. I called up and
    spoke at length with the principal investigators at two of these
    places (one in Texas, another near Wash DC I think.) Neither lead
    investigator I spoke with felt comfortable with the 4 grams a day that
    is the official level claimed as safe. Both of them told me that the
    primary pathway was exhausted at levels of around 1/4th of that -- at
    a gram. And they didn't equivocate on that point -- they were dead
    clear about it. (By the way, I didn't tell one about the conversation
    I'd had with the other, so the information about the amounts came from
    both of them independently -- a fact which I took to confirm that they
    were speaking from the research and not from my encouraging them to
    say some number.)

    I believe that these two pain relievers (which I don't like because
    they make me very nauseated -- a cure worse than the ill) are often
    packaged with substantial quantities of tylenol. Keep track of the
    amounts. Individual tolerances, I'm sure, vary. No one's liver is
    the same as another. But under the circumstances you mention, and
    given the general discussions I've had in the past, I'd want to keep
    the daily intake _well_ under a gram -- perhaps on the order of 250mg
    or less. Look at what is being taken in along with the oxycodone or
    hydrocodone and, if possible, see about getting a purer form rather
    than an adulterated one. They do exist. They just don't like handing
    them out because of their illicit market value.

    Jon
     
  6. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I'll check on that. Didn't occur to me to ask about Tylenol. I
    should have. I personally react to Tylenol as if it were a
    hallucinogen, so it's on my own allergy list.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  7. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    Can you post some links, please?

    Cancer fascinates me.

    An invader exploiting its host to the point where its host can no
    longer sustain itself and stay alive seems to me to be the ultimate
    stupidity.

    Here you've gone to all the trouble of figuring out what you have to
    do to make the host think that you're part of "own ship", and then
    you suck own ship dry, guaranteeing your own demise.

    Maybe that's part of the plan.

    Kill the host and commit suicide if the host fights, otherwise
    wait...
     
  8. My simplified view is not about invaders with plans, but just
    a genetic defect that turns a normal cell into a fast dividing
    one. Like hair. Hair is not a problem, it grows out of your body
    and you can cut it off, if you like.
     
  9. Genome

    Genome Guest

    I don't do prayers or stuff but,

    Best of whatever there is for Son.

    DNA
     
  10. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    Thanks! (I'm the same way)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  11. I'd be interested in what you find out, if you don't mind saying it
    here and can afford the distraction.

    Jon
     
  12. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Jim,
    Just prayed for your son also and will continue to do that. Let us know
    how he progresses.

    It is good that he has you as close family right in town.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  13. Damon Hill

    Damon Hill Guest

    My sympathies; I know it looks grim, but I hope he can pull through.
    Especially tough to have it happen to someone so young.

    --Damon
     
  14. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    My whole (descendent) family are within 3 hours... oldest daughter is
    in Yuma, rest are spread around various Phoenix suburbs.

    So we all swung into action to cover caring for the wife and
    granddaughter.

    His wife's parents have now arrived to allow the granddaughter to
    reside at home and go to school.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  15. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    At first it appeared he gave up, but now he's come out fighting. I
    think he'll survive this.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  16. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    Morphine is the only one used when you get to the hospice stage and a
    few days from death. The survival rate for this Stage 4 colon cancer
    with metastasis in both liver and lungs is not very good, less than 5%
    at five years, but that's just a statistic and individual circumstances
    will always vary. The young age is what makes cases like your son's very
    tragic, this is not natural. I saw a few young ones, bald and dying in
    the terminal ward, when I was in the hospital last year, their health
    may have been fading but the youthful spirit was still alive and well
    within them, it's sickening.
     
  17. IMO, the chance of survival has very little to do with 'fighting'.
    Also, when a patient refuses further treatment like chemo etc, it
    is not a sign of weakness.
     
  18. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    No Tylenol in the medications. In addition my son says the doctor
    loudly instructed the nurses "no Tylenol" AND "no aspirin".

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  19. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    Fred, I've read the statistics. I'm a realist, yet I never give up.

    ...Jim Thompson
     

  20. Good for you, Jim. As I always say, "Don't let the bastards win!"
    ;-)


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
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