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Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
here with my dad.)
My mother had uterine cancer over 10 years earlier. After a year of
radiation and chemotherapy treatments for the colon cancer she went into
remission for 11 months. Then it came back with a vengeance. It
quickly spread to her circulatory system, and then to her brain. She was
dead a couple weeks after it became active, again. I don't wish her
suffering on anyone. They didn't give her enough pain killers, even
though they knew that she was dying.

Michael's post reminds me of a couple of other things:

1) if your son gets into a remission stage, do not just sit and wait
out the time. He must continue with aggressive treatments! If my dad
had done this, he would have boosted his odds of survival considerably.

Just because the cancer isn't being expressed anywhere, and the tumors aren't
visible doesn't mean the little buggers are dead! It only takes a *single*
fetal cell of the right type to start the whole process over again.

There are at least two types of fetal cells. One is simply a tumer builder,
it grows without bounds, and begs the body for blood supply. The other is
a colonizing cell. It prepares a site for colonization. These are the
really dangerous fellas. It is also the area where the vaccines are showing
the most promise.

2) pain killers: pain killers are generally given on a self dosage system.
the patient decides how much, and how often. A cancer sufferer can handle
a dosage of morphine that would kill a normal person. It is like the stuff
gets actually metabolized by the pain. You have far greater worries than
addiction, and stuff like that.

3) the chemo is a tremendous pain reliever. Within minutes of the start
of a dose, the pain melts off. When the chemo is suspended for a couple
weeks, the pain starts to ramp back up.

-Chuck
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
here with my dad.)

Michael's post reminds me of a couple of other things:

1) if your son gets into a remission stage, do not just sit and wait
out the time. He must continue with aggressive treatments! If my dad
had done this, he would have boosted his odds of survival considerably.

Just because the cancer isn't being expressed anywhere, and the tumors aren't
visible doesn't mean the little buggers are dead! It only takes a *single*
fetal cell of the right type to start the whole process over again.

There are at least two types of fetal cells. One is simply a tumer builder,
it grows without bounds, and begs the body for blood supply. The other is
a colonizing cell. It prepares a site for colonization. These are the
really dangerous fellas. It is also the area where the vaccines are showing
the most promise.

2) pain killers: pain killers are generally given on a self dosage system.
the patient decides how much, and how often. A cancer sufferer can handle
a dosage of morphine that would kill a normal person. It is like the stuff
gets actually metabolized by the pain. You have far greater worries than
addiction, and stuff like that.

3) the chemo is a tremendous pain reliever. Within minutes of the start
of a dose, the pain melts off. When the chemo is suspended for a couple
weeks, the pain starts to ramp back up.

-Chuck

Chuck, Good points!

We've already noted the pain killer effect with self-doseage.

Being an engineer, he keeps a diary of what he's taking ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Rene Tschaggelar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chuck said:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They have made great strides in palliative measures (ease the symptoms),
but absolutely *no* progress in curing the disease.

First, I feeling sorry with Jim's son.

From my second hand experiences with the so
called palliative treatment, well ... this is crap.

In two cases close to me these measures were applied
and they were just makeing them feel well while
otherwise they'd have had infinite pain from cancer.
So good this far. Less good was that each shot of
morphine was much more expensive than a steet dose
of the usual street drugs. IMO, palliative medicine
is an organized rip off, to be had much better and
cheaper in the lower quarters of almost every city.
But since the bill is sent to the insurance, none
cares.
With morhine, death is just days away.

Rene
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
First, I feeling sorry with Jim's son.

From my second hand experiences with the so
called palliative treatment, well ... this is crap.

In two cases close to me these measures were applied
and they were just makeing them feel well while
otherwise they'd have had infinite pain from cancer.
So good this far. Less good was that each shot of
morphine was much more expensive than a steet dose
of the usual street drugs. IMO, palliative medicine
is an organized rip off, to be had much better and
cheaper in the lower quarters of almost every city.
But since the bill is sent to the insurance, none
cares.
With morhine, death is just days away.

Rene

I don't think morphine is used anymore.

My son is presently taking oxycodone and something else with a similar
name that I didn't fully catch.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't think morphine is used anymore.

My son is presently taking oxycodone and something else with a similar
name that I didn't fully catch.

Possibly hydrocodone.

Watch out for versions of the two which include tylenol, since you
mentioned a liver issue here. Tylenol is processed through four
pathways in the liver. The primary pathway is relatively safe but is
overwhelmed by about 1 gram spread out over a day in a healthy adult.
The three alternate pathways are destructive to the liver and they are
increasingly used when the primary pathway is exhausted. Hospitals
and literally awash with tylenol because it lacks some complications
they are worried about with other drugs they often use. But they will
use it without telling you -- for example, to make a child groggy
before an operation they will add the verset (itself, something that
demolishes short term memory) to a pink elixir of tylenol. You won't
be told about the tylenol, just the verset, though. So unless you
ask, you won't know.

In any case, when I last investigated these details some years ago, I
discovered that there were three research centers which were then
currently studying tylenol's operation on humans. I called up and
spoke at length with the principal investigators at two of these
places (one in Texas, another near Wash DC I think.) Neither lead
investigator I spoke with felt comfortable with the 4 grams a day that
is the official level claimed as safe. Both of them told me that the
primary pathway was exhausted at levels of around 1/4th of that -- at
a gram. And they didn't equivocate on that point -- they were dead
clear about it. (By the way, I didn't tell one about the conversation
I'd had with the other, so the information about the amounts came from
both of them independently -- a fact which I took to confirm that they
were speaking from the research and not from my encouraging them to
say some number.)

I believe that these two pain relievers (which I don't like because
they make me very nauseated -- a cure worse than the ill) are often
packaged with substantial quantities of tylenol. Keep track of the
amounts. Individual tolerances, I'm sure, vary. No one's liver is
the same as another. But under the circumstances you mention, and
given the general discussions I've had in the past, I'd want to keep
the daily intake _well_ under a gram -- perhaps on the order of 250mg
or less. Look at what is being taken in along with the oxycodone or
hydrocodone and, if possible, see about getting a purer form rather
than an adulterated one. They do exist. They just don't like handing
them out because of their illicit market value.

Jon
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Possibly hydrocodone.

Watch out for versions of the two which include tylenol, since you
mentioned a liver issue here. Tylenol is processed through four
pathways in the liver. The primary pathway is relatively safe but is
overwhelmed by about 1 gram spread out over a day in a healthy adult.
The three alternate pathways are destructive to the liver and they are
increasingly used when the primary pathway is exhausted. Hospitals
and literally awash with tylenol because it lacks some complications
they are worried about with other drugs they often use. But they will
use it without telling you -- for example, to make a child groggy
before an operation they will add the verset (itself, something that
demolishes short term memory) to a pink elixir of tylenol. You won't
be told about the tylenol, just the verset, though. So unless you
ask, you won't know.

In any case, when I last investigated these details some years ago, I
discovered that there were three research centers which were then
currently studying tylenol's operation on humans. I called up and
spoke at length with the principal investigators at two of these
places (one in Texas, another near Wash DC I think.) Neither lead
investigator I spoke with felt comfortable with the 4 grams a day that
is the official level claimed as safe. Both of them told me that the
primary pathway was exhausted at levels of around 1/4th of that -- at
a gram. And they didn't equivocate on that point -- they were dead
clear about it. (By the way, I didn't tell one about the conversation
I'd had with the other, so the information about the amounts came from
both of them independently -- a fact which I took to confirm that they
were speaking from the research and not from my encouraging them to
say some number.)

I believe that these two pain relievers (which I don't like because
they make me very nauseated -- a cure worse than the ill) are often
packaged with substantial quantities of tylenol. Keep track of the
amounts. Individual tolerances, I'm sure, vary. No one's liver is
the same as another. But under the circumstances you mention, and
given the general discussions I've had in the past, I'd want to keep
the daily intake _well_ under a gram -- perhaps on the order of 250mg
or less. Look at what is being taken in along with the oxycodone or
hydrocodone and, if possible, see about getting a purer form rather
than an adulterated one. They do exist. They just don't like handing
them out because of their illicit market value.

Jon

I'll check on that. Didn't occur to me to ask about Tylenol. I
should have. I personally react to Tylenol as if it were a
hallucinogen, so it's on my own allergy list.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
There are at least two types of fetal cells. One is simply a tumer builder,
it grows without bounds, and begs the body for blood supply. The other is
a colonizing cell. It prepares a site for colonization. These are the
really dangerous fellas. It is also the area where the vaccines are showing
the most promise.

---
Can you post some links, please?

Cancer fascinates me.

An invader exploiting its host to the point where its host can no
longer sustain itself and stay alive seems to me to be the ultimate
stupidity.

Here you've gone to all the trouble of figuring out what you have to
do to make the host think that you're part of "own ship", and then
you suck own ship dry, guaranteeing your own demise.

Maybe that's part of the plan.

Kill the host and commit suicide if the host fights, otherwise
wait...
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Fields said:
Cancer fascinates me.

An invader exploiting its host to the point where its host can no
longer sustain itself and stay alive seems to me to be the ultimate
stupidity.

Here you've gone to all the trouble of figuring out what you have to
do to make the host think that you're part of "own ship", and then
you suck own ship dry, guaranteeing your own demise.

Maybe that's part of the plan.

Kill the host and commit suicide if the host fights, otherwise
wait...

My simplified view is not about invaders with plans, but just
a genetic defect that turns a normal cell into a fast dividing
one. Like hair. Hair is not a problem, it grows out of your body
and you can cut it off, if you like.
 
G

Genome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
Just got back from the hospital where my youngest son (33 years old)
is being treated for colon cancer that has spread to lungs and liver
:-(

...Jim Thompson
--

I don't do prayers or stuff but,

Best of whatever there is for Son.

DNA
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll check on that. Didn't occur to me to ask about Tylenol. I
should have. I personally react to Tylenol as if it were a
hallucinogen, so it's on my own allergy list.

I'd be interested in what you find out, if you don't mind saying it
here and can afford the distraction.

Jon
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Jim,
Thank you, Charlie!

Just prayed for your son also and will continue to do that. Let us know
how he progresses.

It is good that he has you as close family right in town.

Regards, Joerg
 
D

Damon Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just got back from the hospital where my youngest son (33 years old)
is being treated for colon cancer that has spread to lungs and liver

My sympathies; I know it looks grim, but I hope he can pull through.
Especially tough to have it happen to someone so young.

--Damon
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Jim,


Just prayed for your son also and will continue to do that. Let us know
how he progresses.

It is good that he has you as close family right in town.

Regards, Joerg

My whole (descendent) family are within 3 hours... oldest daughter is
in Yuma, rest are spread around various Phoenix suburbs.

So we all swung into action to cover caring for the wife and
granddaughter.

His wife's parents have now arrived to allow the granddaughter to
reside at home and go to school.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
My sympathies; I know it looks grim, but I hope he can pull through.
Especially tough to have it happen to someone so young.

--Damon

At first it appeared he gave up, but now he's come out fighting. I
think he'll survive this.

...Jim Thompson
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
I don't think morphine is used anymore.

My son is presently taking oxycodone and something else with a similar
name that I didn't fully catch.

...Jim Thompson

Morphine is the only one used when you get to the hospice stage and a
few days from death. The survival rate for this Stage 4 colon cancer
with metastasis in both liver and lungs is not very good, less than 5%
at five years, but that's just a statistic and individual circumstances
will always vary. The young age is what makes cases like your son's very
tragic, this is not natural. I saw a few young ones, bald and dying in
the terminal ward, when I was in the hospital last year, their health
may have been fading but the youthful spirit was still alive and well
within them, it's sickening.
 
F

Frank Bemelman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
At first it appeared he gave up, but now he's come out fighting. I
think he'll survive this.

IMO, the chance of survival has very little to do with 'fighting'.
Also, when a patient refuses further treatment like chemo etc, it
is not a sign of weakness.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:06:23 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
[snip]
Watch out for versions of the two which include tylenol, since you
mentioned a liver issue here. [snip]
I believe that these two pain relievers (which I don't like because
they make me very nauseated -- a cure worse than the ill) are often
packaged with substantial quantities of tylenol. Keep track of the
amounts. Individual tolerances, I'm sure, vary. No one's liver is
the same as another. But under the circumstances you mention, and
given the general discussions I've had in the past, I'd want to keep
the daily intake _well_ under a gram -- perhaps on the order of 250mg
or less. Look at what is being taken in along with the oxycodone or
hydrocodone and, if possible, see about getting a purer form rather
than an adulterated one. They do exist. They just don't like handing
them out because of their illicit market value.

Jon

I'll check on that. Didn't occur to me to ask about Tylenol. I
should have. I personally react to Tylenol as if it were a
hallucinogen, so it's on my own allergy list.

I'd be interested in what you find out, if you don't mind saying it
here and can afford the distraction.

Jon

No Tylenol in the medications. In addition my son says the doctor
loudly instructed the nurses "no Tylenol" AND "no aspirin".

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Morphine is the only one used when you get to the hospice stage and a
few days from death. The survival rate for this Stage 4 colon cancer
with metastasis in both liver and lungs is not very good, less than 5%
at five years, but that's just a statistic and individual circumstances
will always vary. The young age is what makes cases like your son's very
tragic, this is not natural. I saw a few young ones, bald and dying in
the terminal ward, when I was in the hospital last year, their health
may have been fading but the youthful spirit was still alive and well
within them, it's sickening.

Fred, I've read the statistics. I'm a realist, yet I never give up.

...Jim Thompson
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred, I've read the statistics. I'm a realist, yet I never give up.

Jim Thompson


Good for you, Jim. As I always say, "Don't let the bastards win!"
;-)


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
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