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OP AMP inquiry. What's a better substitution for a JRC 4560D?

L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have decided to swap the opamps on my Onkyo six disc, which uses two paris of
JRC 4560D.

What are good substitutions, preferrably from Burr Brown or Analog Devices? -
Reinhart
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
My favorite has always been the Burr-Brown OPA-2604 for Audio applications.

Kurtis
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
My favorite has always been the Burr-Brown OPA-2604 for Audio applications.

Hey! How's it been going on the LaserDisc newsgroup?

BTW, know where I can get the BB OPA-2604? I was also looking at the Analog
Devices AD826. - Reinhart
 
S

Stephen Sank

Jan 1, 1970
0
Digikey.
I prefer the B-B OPA2134PA over the OPA2604. Sounds better to my ears & a lot cheaper. Also
love the Analog Devices OP275GP(source- Newark Electronics).

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I prefer the B-B OPA2134PA over the OPA2604. Sounds better to my ears & a
lot cheaper. Also
love the Analog Devices OP275GP(source- Newark Electronics).

Cool. Either that, or request samples from Texas Instruments (which merged
with Burr-Brown). I just placed an order for four BB opamps as samples, which
will be shipped to me at TI's expense. Of course, the stipulation is that I
don't resell the chips but I don't think I will be reselling the ones I get.
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
Digiket sells the 2604's for around $2.50 each. They're a great deal for
the dollar.

Kurtis


LASERandDVDfan said:
Cool. Either that, or request samples from Texas Instruments (which merged
with Burr-Brown). I just placed an order for four BB opamps as samples, which
will be shipped to me at TI's expense. Of course, the stipulation is that I
don't resell the chips but I don't think I will be reselling the ones I
get.
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Digiket sells the 2604's for around $2.50 each. They're a great deal for
the dollar.

Definitely will consider them if TI doesn't ship the samples I requested. -
Reinhart
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, Analog Devices beat Texas Instruments in getting the samples to me.
While TI's Burr-Brown division has already shipped the samples (4 OPA2604 and 4
OPA2134) via UPS Ground and aren't expected to arrive until the 27th, Analog
Devices responded to my sample request by shipping 4 AD826AN opamps via UPS
Next Day Air! They got here today and I just installed them.

I hope it's not the placebo effect, but I think I can hear a lot of details in
the sound much better than now than ever before with 4 of those Japan Radio
4560D opamps. The high frequencies are smooth while the rest of the ranges
remain well controlled, the sound quality is more "airy" and dynamic with a
close 3D quality to it, and certain details, like fingers plucking on a harp or
bass strings, are more perceptible. Well, I hope a friend of mine who doesn't
know what I've done will tell me for sure if it sounds smooth and good.

I know that, on paper, the AD826 has five times the bandwidth and several times
the slew rate of the 4560. I just hope that the 4 AD826 chips that were
installed doesn't have problems oscillating, but so far the Onkyo DX-C106,
which has the chips and slight power supply upgrades installed, has been
playing great.

AD826
Bandwidth: 50 MHz
Slew rate: 350 V/(micron)s
(Because of these specs, I think the AD826 was never meant for audio, although
they could be used for it, hence my concern about oscillation with these ICs
when used in a CD player. The fact that audio applications were never
mentioned in the AD826 techsheet seems to support this. Although, so far, I've
not encountered any problems.)

OPA2604
Bandwidth: 20 MHz
Slew rate: 25 V/(micron)s

OPA2134
Bandwidth: 8 MHz
Slew rate: 20 V/(micron)s

NJM/JRC 4560
Bandwidth: 10 MHz
Slew rate: 4 V/(micron)s

I know there's much more info than this, but all I've got at the moment are the
first pages of the datasheets.

As for the Burr-Brown chips, I'm thinking of buying two used CD players with
4560 or 4558 opamps and use the Burr-Browns in them to see how they sound. Of
course, this will be after I beef up their power supplies. - Reinhart
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
LASERandDVDfan said:
Well, Analog Devices beat Texas Instruments in getting the samples to me.
While TI's Burr-Brown division has already shipped the samples (4 OPA2604 and 4
OPA2134) via UPS Ground and aren't expected to arrive until the 27th, Analog
Devices responded to my sample request by shipping 4 AD826AN opamps via UPS
Next Day Air! They got here today and I just installed them.

I hope it's not the placebo effect, but I think I can hear a lot of details in
the sound much better than now than ever before with 4 of those Japan Radio
4560D opamps. The high frequencies are smooth while the rest of the ranges
remain well controlled, the sound quality is more "airy" and dynamic with a
close 3D quality to it, and certain details, like fingers plucking on a harp or
bass strings, are more perceptible. Well, I hope a friend of mine who doesn't
know what I've done will tell me for sure if it sounds smooth and good.

Heh sounds like a review in an audiophool magazine. I don't doubt that the
new parts are of higher quality than the ones they replace though.
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heh sounds like a review in an audiophool magazine. I don't doubt that the
new parts are of higher quality than the ones they replace though.

That's a given. And, as I said before, even though I find the result more
pleasing it may be the placebo effect. That, and I am having qualms about the
opamps oscillating as the AD826 operates much faster. So far though, my radio
and TV haven't reacted. - Reinhart
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, I take back my praise after an extended listen.

While more accurate and clear than before, the highs and mids are too
aggressive and fatigue sets in after a few minutes. Back to the drawing board,
I guess.

To those who think that the reason for the fatigue is because it's digital, you
must remember that most CD players are designed with rather substandard
analogue sections. There are CD players using excellent designs that actually
sound soothing and emotional but without losing the accuracy at the same time.
- Reinhart
 
S

Stephen Sank

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd say that you'll most probably like the sound of the OPA2134 better, then. It's sweeter on
top & richer in the mids & lows. In audio, faster very often does not mean better sound. You
probably would find the OP275 a bit too similar to the AD826, as far as the negatives.
I would also very much recommend installing soft recovery rectifier diodes in the power supply
for the d/a & output stages.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
At the risk of schwenking, by replying to myself on this thread, I have to give
the update that I have found out what was causing my fatiguing.

I listened to another source, my Technics SL-7 turntable, and discovered that I
was still fatiguing! Turns out that the speakers were not set optimally for
the receiver.

Fortunately, the stereo main speakers have adjustable crossover circuits
(Actual circuit with fuses, copper coils, and a few capacitors. Not some cheap
capacitor wired inline to the upper range drivers.) so I could tone down the
mids and highs to less offensive levels. - Reinhart

(Pair of Optimus Mach Three driven by a Technics SA-DA10 using 16 gauge copper
cables, and the cables aren't coiled up if anyone is wondering. The Mach and
Linæum models were probably the only speakers that RadioShack sold which were
really good. For that matter, the SA-DA10 is one of those few receivers that
Technics managed to get right.)
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd say that you'll most probably like the sound of the OPA2134 better, then.
It's sweeter on
top & richer in the mids & lows. In audio, faster very often does not mean
better sound.

True. Sometimes, faster makes the sound too much "in your face!" I hope I
made an accurate analogy.
I would also very much recommend installing soft recovery rectifier diodes in
the power supply
for the d/a & output stages.

Say, that's a good idea. If I'm not mistaken, would that help in dropping the
noise floor? Which brings up something else kind of cool about the Onkyo. It
looks as if it has two bridge rectifier sections, each with four rectifier
diodes and their own filtering capacitors. Perhaps a separated power supply
under one transformer, with one section that supplies power to the SYSCON and
mechanical functions while another powers the digital and analogue sections.

And another fascinating fact. A lot of major parts in the Onkyo were from
Sony! The SYSCON processor, the D/A LSI (which was branded Onkyo but the part
numbers are Sony), and even the entire disc drive traverse chassis which I've
also seen used in a Sony ES 5 disc changer, a Pioneer shelf-system, an Aiwa
shelf-system, and even a Sega CD expansion for the Sega Genesis video game
system! - Reinhart
 
S

Stephen Sank

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most cd players that aren't total garbage have a seperate supply section for the audio stages.
So, you just need to figure out which rect. bridge supplies the split 12 or 15 volt lines for
the analog. Soft recovery diodes will clean up the hi's & mids more than anything else, but
may drop the noise floor as well.
Most Onkyo changers are 90 percent Sony, as are many of their single players.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most Onkyo changers are 90 percent Sony, as are many of their single players.
Must be pretty amusing when you have someone badmouth a Sony CD player, but
turn around and say that they have an Onkyo! - Reinhart
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, the OPA-2604 opamps arrived and I replaced them. The resulting sound is
much better: smoother and with a touch more warmth without sacrificing
accuracy. I don't think I'll entertain the notion of installing the OPA2134
opamps when they get here. But, I'm saving my AD826 and OPA2134 chips for
other CD players and maybe something else. I already used one of the AD823
opamps I took out of the Onkyo in a Beta hi-fi VCR which did give it a marked
improvement in sound over the JRC 4558 that it used. Plus, the VCR is powering
the opamp within the specifications.

But, I discovered another reason why I had to replace the AD826 opamps: the
voltage that the CD player was feeding them was 1.5 volts over the rated
maximum for the ICs, so they had to come out to eliminate any chance of
oscillation from overvoltage. - Reinhart
 
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