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Onkyo TX 3000 questions

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Waylon, Dec 27, 2005.

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  1. Waylon

    Waylon Guest

    My Onkyo TX 3000 stereo receiver went on the blink and I've had it in a local
    repair shop for the past 3 months. The problem with the device is this. When you
    push the on/off switch, nothing happens. Usually, once you turn it on, it will
    be about a 2 or 3 second delay, you will hear a click sound and it powers up.
    Well, that don't happen. Al the lights comes on, but that click sound never
    materializes and NO SOUND. Anybody go a clue and is 3 months typically TOO Long
    for a shop to take to repair???
  2. Arfa Daily

    Arfa Daily Guest

    I would suspect that the person who landed the job of looking at it, has '
    lost his way ' a bit on it. It happens to us all sometimes, and it's usually
    the slightly more obscure makes of this type of high end equipment, that it
    happens on.

    Basically, the failure of the unit to come on with the normal relay click,
    means that the system control micro, is detecting some kind of fault
    condition. This is what is being looked for by the system control during
    that few seconds between you hitting the switch, and the relay closing to
    complete the power up sequence. Often, it will be an output stage problem,
    but this is where the fun and games can start. This kind of problem can
    literally soak up hours of bench time, particularly if the unit has discrete
    component output stages, and you don't have a schematic.

    Having realised that you have spent half a day, and got nowhere, the
    tendency is to cast it aside to get on with some jobs that will put food on
    the table. You always promise yourself that you will look at it again on
    Friday when you're less stressed, and in the meantime, will try to obtain a
    service manual. Unfortunately, it never works like that, and this week turns
    into next week, and then next month until it becomes an embarrassment, and
    you start to dread the owner ringing up about it. Any other professionals
    reading this will know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm willing to bet
    that every one of us has been there at some time ...

    I would suggest that you approach the shop where it is, and ask nicely what
    the problem is. Suggest to them that if they are having too much of a
    problem with it, that they just put it back together, and let you have it
    back, as three months is not acceptable. If it's not fixed just because they
    can't fix it, they shouldn't charge you anything. Most of us who are
    reputable, work on a no fix no charge basis.

    If the scenario is as I've described, they will probably appreciate your
    direct approach and understanding. Providing that the person looking at it
    is not a nonno, then as a fellow engineer, I have sympathy with him.

  3. Waylon

    Waylon Guest

    I do thank you for your candor and honesty in your reply. I will talk to the
    repair tech and express these sentiments and in a polite kind of way, ask for my
    receiver back and get in the market for a replacement.

    Again...Thank You.!!!

  5. I'm pretty sure this model is a bit old to have a microprocessor-controlled
    protection circuit. More likely just an analog DC detect / overcurrent
    detect circuit.

    As far as "no fix no charge" is concerned, in my shop the initial check-out
    fee is non-refundable except in extraordinary circumstances. Three months
    time unable to fix might not qualify, but three months getting a runaround
    would, in my opinion.

    Mark Z.
  6. Arfa Daily

    Arfa Daily Guest

    Yeah, I know what you're saying, Mark. It's always a difficult one as to
    whether there should be a standard charge applied to a no-go repair. I tend
    to work along the lines that if it can't be fixed because there is no
    service info available, and I've spent time trying to work around that fact,
    then it is chargeable at the base examination rate. Likewise, if it can't be
    fixed because of lack of spares. But, except in some special circumstances,
    if I can't fix it simply because I personally can't get to the bottom of the
    problem - and no matter how good we think we are, it happens to us all
    occasionally - then I don't feel that it is justified to charge the owner
    for my lack of ability in his particular case. I'm probably too soft for my
    own good, but I always think that if the owner had taken it to my mate down
    the road, he would have been able to fix it. ( he probably wouldn't 'cause
    I'm better than him ( !! ) ) but still, the thought is always there.

    The trick is to realise early on when you are beat, and not to waste so much
    time, but none of us likes to admit defeat, and the answer is always just
    two more voltage checks away, isn't it ... ?

    And yes, you're probably right about the protect circuit. In fact now I come
    to think of it, I have a dim recollection of having one of these, or a
    similar vintage Onkyo, come across my bench some long time ago, with a
    similar problem. It turned out to be the delay cap on the protect IC ( one
    of those little 9 pin SIL things ) that was the problem. It had leaked, and
    the electrolyte had attacked the timing resistor that was nearby. Cleaning
    up and replacing those two items cured it.

  7. if I can't fix it simply because I personally can't get to the >bottom of

    That's why we charge it as in initial check-out fee. The idea is that the
    checkout fee applies to all units equally and covers fixed and other
    operating costs of the shop - Yellow Pages ad, utilities, etc. This is
    explained up front and the large majority of customers are OK with it, so
    long as it applies to a completed repair. Since we went to this policy
    several years ago, our financial standing has improved considerably.

    The checkout fee is only refunded on rare occasions. I will write the refund
    check to avoid an argument, even if the customer is being unreasonable,
    since I feel any time spent arguing is too valuable, and can be better spent
    elsewhere, i.e. fixing the next piece o' crap on the bench.

    Mark Z.

  8. Well said, Mark. I can only think of one instance where we refunded a
    check-out fee, and it was exactly for the reason that you gave. We make a
    very deliberate effort to make people understand up front and have little
    problems. Even if we can't figure out the problem, we put time into ruling
    things out and making the evaluation, handling the unit, being responsible
    for it while in our possesion, using the space and time that could have been
    dedicated to other jobs, and likely using more time than an actual repair.
    Most of the time, if a tech who is skillful can't figure out a problem, it
    is because of less than adequate documentation or the nature of the problem
    is such that it becomes clear that excessive time and cost in parts will be
    needed to proceed effectively. Just coming to that conclusion has value to
    the client and uses resources that cost real money.

    Does a doctor give you a refund if he can't diagnose your problem? They
    don't even give you a refund if they screw up the diagnosis and have to see
    you again, they charge you. The even charge again for redoing work that
    they didn't get right the first time.

    Now there are lots of so-called techs that have no clue how to diagnose and
    fix a problem and who are happy to charge an estimate fee to just tell the
    client that the unit is not repairable or give them a ridiculously high
    estimate. Reputable businesses don't operate this way. We are not in the
    business of collecting estimate fees and not solving problems. We steer
    people away from even paying for an estimate at the counter if we think the
    problem is going to require excessive cost or if it is a product that we are
    not familiar enough with to give an effective estimate. If they insist on
    our evaluation, they understand that the fee for our service is not

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