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Not sure if this is the right area: Relay help questions

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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Hi, I'm seth, i'm a volunteer and paid EMT. I have two identical sirens that, seperate aren't that loud, but together are plenty sufficient. I'm putting them into a truck with limited dash space. I had them ran with dual throw on-off-on switches, but now I dont have room for that big of switches. I'm trying to find out if I can run them through a relay, from a single switch, and still have both sirens working at the same time. I cant just wire the sirens together in a "bridge" but I'm hoping this will work. any suggestions? if this will work does anyone recomend a certain relay for the job? if a dual throw relay wont work, can I bridge two singles together? running a power wire from the switch into relay #1, then from the negative of relay #1 to the positive of relay #2, and then from the neg. of relay #2 to back to the battery?
 

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daddles

Jun 10, 2011
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Hi, Seth. Here's a suggested circuit. I can't recommend a part because you didn't specify the current draw of the sirens. However, add the currents that the sirens draw (measure it to be sure) and go to your auto parts store and get a double pole, single or double throw relay. Get a relay with a current rating about 20% more than what the sirens draw to be a bit conservative. If you can't get a double pole relay, you can use two single pole relays. The little switch in the lower left is what turns the sirens on.
 

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shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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well, I plan on using the trucks battery for the remote power for the relays, so would it matter what the sirens were pushing as long as the relays turned on when it took the 12-14 volts coming from the batery?
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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sorry, I'm not doubting you at all, relays are a new concept to me, I've never had to use them in my electrical wiring jobs. lol till now I've always just used dual throw switches, its an easier concept for me to understand. lol
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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I looked at your attachement, I cant run them in tandem like that, I tried once and failed miserably. lol
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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ok this is the last one before someone replies back. lol dont want to blow up the thread. but since running them in tandem blows fuses and quite frankly, sounded like crap. so here is a little more in detail of what I was thinking, I hope it makes sense to you guys, and doesnt give you a migrane looking at it. its the best I can come up with from getting it from my brain to the screen. lol
 

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daddles

Jun 10, 2011
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So you're using the word "tandem" to mean running them in parallel?

If they are 12 volt units, they should work fine being hooked up in parallel to a power source. If this is blowing a fuse, then the circuit you're using isn't sized to deliver enough current. You can either add a new circuit (and use a properly sized fuse for the wire size) or get power from two different fused circuits. You need to tell us what current these things draw. If there's a nameplate, let us know what's on it (or take a picture).

By the way, in case you were thinking about it, don't ever just substitute a larger fuse -- that's asking for trouble.
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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no, I'd never do that, these units are too expensive to replace. and yeah, sorry about the terminology mixup, parallel is a better term for it.

the sirens are powered by 12 volts, but I'm not sure what voltage/amperage is used on the switches. so am I looking for amperage draw? if so, do I put a meter on it and then look for a relay slightly above whatever its drawing from the switch wires? or do I just expect it to run on a 12 volt relay? either way, how do I know what type of relay i need? arent most just 4 prong, nomaly open?
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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is something like this more what you were thinking about?
 

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daddles

Jun 10, 2011
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Here's an analogy: you're trying to suspend a load with a rope. You can't buy the correct rope until you know what the load weighs. Similarly, here, you can't buy the correct relay until you know what current and voltage the relay must be rated for. We know the voltage -- it's the nominal automotive 12 volts. The thing we need to know is the current these sirens require when operating. This is usually specified on a label of a device, but if there isn't one present, you have to measure it with an ammeter. This is conceptually pretty simple to do, but it's got some practical problems: if the siren draws more current than your ammeter's maximum full scale current, you'll blow a fuse in the ammeter (or damage the ammeter if it doesn't have a fuse). In some digital multimeters, this can mean replacing the fuse, which can cost $5 to $15 for a new fuse. The best tool is a clamp-on ammeter that can measure DC current because you don't have to worry about blowing a fuse. But you're unlikely to have one; however, you might have a friend or coworker that does. If you were near by, I'd do it for you because it only takes a couple of seconds. I'd use this meter because I have one handy.

Once you know the current that each of the sirens draws when operating, then you're ready to proceed with the rest of the design necessary to have a proper and safe installation. If you can't measure the current spec, then you should try to call the manufacturer and get them to tell you. Failing that, you could go to a service place (like an auto repair place, stereo shop, etc.) and pay them to measure the current for you.

I'd imagine that these things are probably on the order of 50 W to 100 W of power maximum. That means the current will be approximately 5 to 10 A (I used an efficiency of 0.8). But you want to measure it and know rather than guess and run the risk of guessing wrong and making an installation mistake. An installation mistake runs the risk of causing a fire, so it's clear you want to do things right.
 

shameless

Sep 17, 2011
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ok that makes more sense. so if I were using a wire from the battery to controll the coil side of the relay, I still need to check the ameture side of the relay for current draw, even if I went with a relay that was probably overkill for the ammount of amps I'm using? I have no problem with having it checked, just trying to understand this better.
 
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