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Not earthing a generator

Discussion in 'Hobby Electronics' started by Sylvia Else, Feb 23, 2011.

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  1. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    Being no longer trusting that Energy Australia will supply power during
    heatwaves, I've acquired a generator.

    The manual advises connecting an earth tag on the generator to an earth
    spike in the ground.

    In the absence of this, since the generator is sitting on rubber-like
    feet, it would appear to be pretty well insulated from the ground, and
    running appliances off it would be akin to running them off an isolating
    transformer.

    What's the objection to running it this way?

    Sylvia.
     
  2. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Sylvia Else"

    ** An isolating transformer normally only isolates the current carrying
    conductors from ground while continuing the safety earth connection through
    to the appliance.

    Assuming that a portable generator has its neutral tied to the metal fame of
    the machine, leakage ( or a short ) from active to the local ground would
    make the frame live 240VAC.


    ...... Phil
     
  3. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    Though I don't see what that achieves, other than ensure that there's no
    static build up on the driven appliance.
    In this case, the generator has a plastic cover. The only places that
    metal is exposed are the exaust, and the earthing point.

    I'll find out whether its neutral is attached to its earth point when I
    stop it later on. Damned thing needs to be run in for 20 hours at half
    load before being used on variable loads, so I've got it warming up the
    world through an electric bar heater.

    Sylvia.
     
  4. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Sylvia Else"

    ** You don't see much at all.


    ** Really .................

    ** So one can get burnt and electrocuted at the same time.
     
  5. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    Oh Phil, you were doing so well. It was too much to hope that it would last.
    With sufficient determination, perhaps, if a fault of the particular
    kind happens to develop in an appliance, the appliance's casing has
    sufficient contact with ground and one goes out and touches the
    generator's exaust outlet.

    Sylvia.
     
  6. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"
    ** FFS stop posting ABSURDLY POMPOUS SHIT like

    " I don't see .... blag, blah, blah ..... "

    And ask a fucking SENSIBLE QUESTION !!



    ..... Phil
     
  7. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    I can say "It doesn't make any difference" if that will encourage you to
    find and express an argument showing that I'm wrong.

    Sylvia.
     
  8. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

    BURN the WITCH !!!

    ** That is far too stupid and ambiguous to even consider.

    What the **** does this UTTERLY MAD BITCH think isolation transformers are
    for ??


    ...... Phil
     
  9. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    Oh, if I were to take a punt - isolation?

    Sylvia.
     
  10. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

    BURN the WITCH !!!


    ** Why don't you take a flying leap off the harbour bridge ?

    You fuckwit, waste of space damn TROLL.
     
  11. terryc

    terryc Guest

    If it is bqasically a permanent installation, makes sense to drive an
    earth spike or use the existing one.
     

  12. Hi Phil

    I certainly see your point if the generator's neutral is tied to the
    frame.

    Is this common practice? If so, why?

    I'm looking for enlightment, not an argument!

    Cheers

    Dave.
     
  13. **Which one did you buy? How much power? Where'd you buy it? I hope you use
    an inverter style air-con. Regular air-cons are deadly to generators.
     
  14. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Dave Goldfinch"
    ** I believe it is the norm.

    It duplicates the usual " earthed neutral " domestic AC supply and ensures
    that a short from active to the protective earth of an appliance will trip a
    breaker connected in the active.

    So - if a gene's frame is NOT grounded to real earth, a single fault (
    where active leaks to real ground ) could render that frame live PLUS the
    safety ground circuit of all the metalwork of any connected appliances that
    use the safety ground conductor.

    Absolutely lethal.


    ** Makes a nice change round here.



    ..... Phil
     
  15. Makes sense!

    Thanks On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:15:05 +1100, "Phil Allison"
    Makes sense.

    Thanks Phil.

    Dave
     
  16. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    It's not on my generator.

    Which would seem to mean that the output is floating compared with the
    earth *pin*. That doesn't actually seem like a very good idea.

    Sylvia.
     
  17. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    After much soul searching I went for a Kipor GS2600 (rated output
    2300W), bought from Sparky Direct. It may not (with emphasis on may)
    have the run-time longevity of a Honda or Yamaha, but I don't need that
    in this application. I'll probably die of old age before it reaches 50
    hours. The twenty hour run-in, while a bit of a pain, gives me a chance
    to let it burn-in while it's in warranty. I checked with Kipor in
    Australia, and they claim that spare parts are available for it here.

    In some quarters they seem to have a reputation for being a bit smokey,
    but in fact once mine has warmed up, there's no smoke visible even if I
    set out to look for it.

    Yes, it's an inverter air-conditioner (Daikin). I called Daikin and they
    hadn't a clue about starting current, so I measured it directly. It's
    very well behaved.

    I did some more searching regarding earthing. This seems to be a
    contentious and hotly debated issue.

    Sylvia.
     
  18. Don McKenzie

    Don McKenzie Guest

    some interesting reading here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

    If your generator walks, it may pay to anchor it in some way, if you end up earthing it.
    Perhaps even an earth anchor :)


    Cheers Don...

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  19. Sylvia Else

    Sylvia Else Guest

    Yes, having it walk onto the back of someone's truck is a particular
    concern, and one that I've yet to resolve to my complete satisfaction.

    Sylvia.
     
  20. terryc

    terryc Guest

    Heavy metal strap bent into a U, two holes through it, then drive a
    large pin through the holes into the ground. I make pins out of 1" reo
    bar and a large washer. a number of those will slow down a stupid thief.

    ..
     
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