Newbie questions

[[email protected]]

Hi,

I am thinking of installing a burglar alarm system in my home and
have a few questions after I looked at product descriptions of some
available systems online:

(1) Is it really worthwhile to order the monitoring service together
with the security system? I mean, most really depend on phone line to
call up the monitoring company for the alarm. Aren't most burglars
smart enough to cut the phone line before they enter the house? There
are some that provide cell phone dial up, but I wonder if that's really
worth the trouble.

(2) Without the monitoring service, how effective is the alarm siren.
Isn't it relatively easy for the burglar to take the battery out of the
controller and the siren will stop shortly?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rich]

If you have this outlook why are you installing a system anyway? There must
be a reason you are spending $500.00. Safety, Security, Early warning, Evan
a door chime so you know when the wife left the dog out.

Oh the insurance discounts. Maybe the smoke detector that went off at 3 AM
and called the fire dept while you were sleeping. It's worth it to have it
monitored because you have no clue.

 

[[email protected]]

If you have this outlook why are you installing a system anyway? There must
be a reason you are spending $500.00. Safety, Security, Early warning, Evan
a door chime so you know when the wife left the dog out.

Oh the insurance discounts. Maybe the smoke detector that went off at 3 AM
and called the fire dept while you were sleeping. It's worth it to have it
monitored because you have no clue.

Thanks for the response. However, I am not sure I understand you. I
am concerned about the effectiveness of the burglar alarms from what I
read, so I raised the questions. May be most burglars don't cut phone
lines before they entered houses? May be many systems have a built-in
battery that will power the siren and not easily taken on etc.
Actually, I am not planing to spend $500, more like $200-$300 for one
of those wireless system from online site. I am not going to count on
window/door sensors, but rather on motion detector for protection while
nobody is home (the main situation for protection).
Actually, I have one more question regarding those motion detector:

(3) Those pet immune motion detectors: are these thermal based detector
such that they only detect living things with thermal radiation, such
that the motion of a non-living object won't trigger them (such as a
curtain blown by wind thru a window etc.)?

Thanks again.

 

[Stanley Barthfarkle]

(1) Is it really worthwhile to order the monitoring service together

with the security system? I mean, most really depend on phone line to
call up the monitoring company for the alarm. Aren't most burglars
smart enough to cut the phone line before they enter the house? There
are some that provide cell phone dial up, but I wonder if that's really
worth the trouble.

Monitoring has several benefits...
a)- Peace of mind. Go on vacation and never worry about your house while
you're gone.
b)- Remote assistance. Someone hears burglar break in when alarm is off-
pushes panic button to scare away intruder and initiate police call
instantly.
c)- Homeowner's insurance discount possible with some insurance. Most
require a monitored intrusion AND fire detection system to be eligible.

As far as phone lines are concerned- Yes, most burglar are smart enough to
cut the phone line before breaking in. So, let's use that little piece of
knowledge to our advantage. Cell backup, 2-way radio backup, or phone line
hardening are the answer. Phone line hardening is my favorite- the actual
phone line is brought into the premises through a hole in the foundation
hidden underground. Then a "dummy" phone line is run exposed where a phone
line usually runs, but is hooked up to a 24 hr silent "tamper" zone to
initiate a police call when the lowlife burglar cuts what he THINKS is the
phone line. Good chance of catching them in the act this way.

(2) Without the monitoring service, how effective is the alarm siren.
Isn't it relatively easy for the burglar to take the battery out of the
controller and the siren will stop shortly?

It is not easy to defeat the alarm from dialing the central station if it is
engineered properly. The control should be semi-hidden, and difficult to pry
open. Even if locked, screws at each corner of the control make it difficult
to gain access, and ensure extra time is required to disable the system.

In a non-monitored system, it would take extra time to find and disable the
sirens in a properly engineered system, but it is possible. Neighbors should
be notified when your system is installed that your have an alarm, and to
call police if they hear the siren, even briefly. The siren sound, however
brief, will cause attention to be focused on the residence by
neighbors...something the crook really doesn't want. That said, it is
foolish to assume someone will always hear the siren, or will always react
to it.

 

[Stanley Barthfarkle]

Actually, I am not planing to spend $500, more like $200-$300 for one

of those wireless system from online site. I am not going to count on
window/door sensors, but rather on motion detector for protection while
nobody is home (the main situation for protection).

Need 2 levels of protection for an effective system- perimeter
(doors/windows) and interior. (motions, tampered drawers or cabinets, etc)
There is a significant advantage to catching a burglar BEFORE or WHILE he's
breaking in, instead of after he's already in. Layers of protection increase
your level of protection, and provide a form of "verification", since an
intruder moving through a premises will trip mutiple zones of protection.

(3) Those pet immune motion detectors: are these thermal based detector
such that they only detect living things with thermal radiation, such
that the motion of a non-living object won't trigger them (such as a
curtain blown by wind thru a window etc.)?

Some are Passive Infrared, some are both PIR and Microwave. Motion of
anything will trip a detector, since curtains or other objects do not have
precisely the same Infrared light (heat) signature as background objects. A
blowing curtain, helium balloons, and many other things will trip a motion
detector. Proper engineering and setup is vital to false alarm elimination
and proper catch performance.

 

[Bob La Londe]

Need 2 levels of protection for an effective system- perimeter
(doors/windows) and interior. (motions, tampered drawers or cabinets, etc)
There is a significant advantage to catching a burglar BEFORE or WHILE
he's breaking in, instead of after he's already in. Layers of protection
increase your level of protection, and provide a form of "verification",
since an intruder moving through a premises will trip mutiple zones of
protection.



Some are Passive Infrared, some are both PIR and Microwave. Motion of
anything will trip a detector, since curtains or other objects do not have
precisely the same Infrared light (heat) signature as background objects.
A blowing curtain, helium balloons, and many other things will trip a
motion detector. Proper engineering and setup is vital to false alarm
elimination and proper catch performance.

Balloons are so much fun. Milars are the worst. One call center with a 16
foot ceiling was quite a challenge. Everytime they had a party for somebody
they would have balloons loose in the building. The holidays were
particularly fun. Finally I walked in one day with an air rifle and put a
few holes in their ceiling tiles. I don't recall having the problem since
then.





*** ***

 

[RobertM]

Monitoring has several benefits...
a)- Peace of mind. Go on vacation and never worry about your house while
you're gone.
b)- Remote assistance. Someone hears burglar break in when alarm is off-
pushes panic button to scare away intruder and initiate police call
instantly.
c)- Homeowner's insurance discount possible with some insurance. Most
require a monitored intrusion AND fire detection system to be eligible.

As far as phone lines are concerned- Yes, most burglar are smart enough to
cut the phone line before breaking in. So, let's use that little piece of
knowledge to our advantage. Cell backup, 2-way radio backup, or phone line
hardening are the answer. Phone line hardening is my favorite- the actual
phone line is brought into the premises through a hole in the foundation
hidden underground. Then a "dummy" phone line is run exposed where a phone
line usually runs, but is hooked up to a 24 hr silent "tamper" zone to
initiate a police call when the lowlife burglar cuts what he THINKS is the
phone line. Good chance of catching them in the act this way.





It is not easy to defeat the alarm from dialing the central station if it
is engineered properly. The control should be semi-hidden, and difficult
to pry open. Even if locked, screws at each corner of the control make it
difficult to gain access, and ensure extra time is required to disable the
system.

In a non-monitored system, it would take extra time to find and disable
the sirens in a properly engineered system, but it is possible. Neighbors
should be notified when your system is installed that your have an alarm,
and to call police if they hear the siren, even briefly. The siren sound,
however brief, will cause attention to be focused on the residence by
neighbors...something the crook really doesn't want. That said, it is
foolish to assume someone will always hear the siren, or will always react
to it.

In my home it was not possible to harden the phone wires so I put an
alarm loop in the phone cable. If someone cuts the phone cable, a 120 db
siren on the roof will sound, and a flashing strobe is activated. At that
point I expect a thief would probably leave very quickly, although I
understand that nothing except my Smith & Wesson will stop a determined
would be thief. As was said, layers of protection. An alarm is a good first
layer of defense because the other method can be messy and incur possible
legal problems depending on thieves' rights.

Bob

 

[Everywhere Man]

Thanks for the response. However, I am not sure I understand you. I
am concerned about the effectiveness of the burglar alarms from what I
read, so I raised the questions. May be most burglars don't cut phone
lines before they entered houses? May be many systems have a built-in
battery that will power the siren and not easily taken on etc.
Actually, I am not planing to spend $500, more like $200-$300 for one
of those wireless system from online site. <

Then take your questions to the online dealer. Between you, and the guy
who will mail someone with your vast security knowledge an alarm, I am
sure a level of protection that exceeds anything the experienced
people here are discussing with you can be designed.
$200-$300 is way too much to spend on protecting your home & family.
Home safety should never cost more than $50.00. Seriously, it's not
like you're really protecting anything important enough to warrant
hiring a professional. Use the money you save for the things that are
important to you.......maybe like a TiVo, or a cell phone that takes
pictures.

I am not going to count on
window/door sensors, but rather on motion detector for protection while
nobody is home (the main situation for protection). <

Are you sure you're not in this business? You are so smart. Wow, I wish
I could protect the ones I love with your superior design.

Actually, I have one more question regarding those motion detector: <

And you will probably have the answer too. Guys like you know
everything. You have it all figured out. Trust me, you don't need our
help here. We need your help. You are a security guru.

(3) Those pet immune motion detectors: are these thermal based detector
such that they only detect living things with thermal radiation, such
that the motion of a non-living object won't trigger them (such as a
curtain blown by wind thru a window etc.)?<

Does a motion detector get set off by motion? Hrmmmmmmmm good question.
I always wondered if door sensors can really sense a door. I mean is it
sensing the door's inner-most thoughts, or is it just using a smoke &
mirrors detector to fool us all?

Thanks again. <

Oh no Thank you Mr. Acchevano.

 

[alarman]

Finally I walked in one day with an air rifle and put a few holes in their
ceiling tiles. I don't recall having the problem since then.

Hahahahahahahaha! The wild wild west. I love it. ROFL
js

 

[Crash Gordon]

Wow... a whole 200-300 bucks to protect your family?
I bet your refrigerator cost 1500 to protect 100 bucks worth of food.




|
| Rich wrote:
| > If you have this outlook why are you installing a system anyway? There
must
| > be a reason you are spending $500.00. Safety, Security, Early warning,
Evan
| > a door chime so you know when the wife left the dog out.
| >
| > Oh the insurance discounts. Maybe the smoke detector that went off at 3
AM
| > and called the fire dept while you were sleeping. It's worth it to have
it
| > monitored because you have no clue.
|
| Thanks for the response. However, I am not sure I understand you. I
| am concerned about the effectiveness of the burglar alarms from what I
| read, so I raised the questions. May be most burglars don't cut phone
| lines before they entered houses? May be many systems have a built-in
| battery that will power the siren and not easily taken on etc.
| Actually, I am not planing to spend $500, more like $200-$300 for one
| of those wireless system from online site. I am not going to count on
| window/door sensors, but rather on motion detector for protection while
| nobody is home (the main situation for protection).
| Actually, I have one more question regarding those motion detector:
|
| (3) Those pet immune motion detectors: are these thermal based detector
| such that they only detect living things with thermal radiation, such
| that the motion of a non-living object won't trigger them (such as a
| curtain blown by wind thru a window etc.)?
|
| Thanks again.
|

 

[Rich]

Most panels have phone line monitoring if it is lost ,cut
the horn and keypads will tell you.

 

[Bill]

Most burglars who break into your average home are idiots. Watch America's
Dumbest Criminals to get an idea. They don't know how to cut phone lines or
disconnect batteries. If they did, they would probably have a job and not
need to be breaking into your house!

The "pros" will break into somewhere where it is worth their effort, not a
home unless they know there is a lot of cash, jewelry, etc. there.

I think the best thing is to just place burglar alarm stickers around your
house. They will go next door where there are no stickers. Get them here...
http://www.homesecuritystore.com/security_decals_stickers.html

The next level of security would be a local alarm (not monitored) with a
siren. If they do break in, they will make their visit short.

Monitoring is good for medical alert, personal attack, or robbery. If the
police take 30 minutes to get there, burglars will be long gone. If there is
a private guard service in your area to respond, this would be better. Don't
sign any monitoring contracts until you read *every* word. Beware! They will
try to lock you in for many years. Canceling can be difficult. Read the fine
print. Here is inexpensive monitoring...
http://www.alarmrelay.com

Then the best security is physical. Bars on windows, doors, etc.

 

[Bob Worthy]

I hope Bill was being facetious toward an earlier post because if not, Bill
takes this years more moronic poster award. He or a loved one is not, as of
yet, a statistic. Read today's Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel news article
about the 24 year old pregnant lady, that two weeks away from delivery, was
found stabbed to death in her home, the baby also died. After that, then
come back and tell us about window stickers and backroom monitoring boiler
rooms, you idiot. Unfortunately, the victim was a friend of mine's daughter.

 

[Stanley Barthfarkle]

In my home it was not possible to harden the phone wires so I put an
alarm loop in the phone cable. If someone cuts the phone cable, a 120 db
siren on the roof will sound, and a flashing strobe is activated. At that
point I expect a thief would probably leave very quickly, although I
understand that nothing except my Smith & Wesson will stop a determined
would be thief. As was said, layers of protection. An alarm is a good
first layer of defense because the other method can be messy and incur
possible legal problems depending on thieves' rights.

Someone already mentioned a phone-line tamper module, so I digress on that
point. Yes, the thief will leave, but there is always the risk that someone
could "feel out" your monitoring company's or police dept.'s response by
triggering a false alarm several times, until they suspend response to it.
Anything that can be triggered on the outside should be silent, monitored,
and have a backup.

There are very few places where it isn't at all possible to harden, or at
least vastly improve, the security of the phone service line-

Concrete slab- Drill inside at a 45 degree angle through the slab to outside
approx 6-8" deep. Go slowly and let the pneumatic hammer drill do the work
so as not to crack a piece off of your slab.

Aerial drop- Get identical phone service cable (or some that looks very
close) and run the existing wire into the attic at the service loop. Bring
the "dummy line out through the same hole. Use electrical tape to bind these
2 together, so that it looks like some bozo phone technician did a cheap
fix, and gives you a bigger "knot" with which to hide the wire entry hole.
Send the dummy phone line down into a dummy demarc and you're set. Don't
forget the 24 hr silent tamper zone.

 

[Everywhere Man]

Or you can always place donuts on a neighbor's doorstep which will
cause the crook to follow his appetite rather than rob your home.

 

[mikey]

How tragic. So sorry for your loss, Bob.
Makes you wonder what kind of monsters roam this planet.

I hope Bill was being facetious toward an earlier post because if not, Bill
takes this years more moronic poster award. He or a loved one is not, as of
yet, a statistic. Read today's Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel news article
about the 24 year old pregnant lady, that two weeks away from delivery, was
found stabbed to death in her home, the baby also died. After that, then
come back and tell us about window stickers and backroom monitoring boiler
rooms, you idiot. Unfortunately, the victim was a friend of mine's daughter.

there

*** ***

 

[Stanley Barthfarkle]

Send the dummy phone line down into a dummy demarc and you're set. Don't

forget the 24 hr silent tamper zone.

I should clarify the definition of "silent" in this case- Not sounding a
siren would be silent... keypad annunciation would be o.k., since the crook
probably couldn't hear it inside.

 

[[email protected]]

Wow, thank you very very much for all the valuable information. I
didn't expect to get so much useful knowledge about security system.
Feel really sorry for the unlucky lady.
I guess I was looking at those relatively inexpensively wireless system
that has the base controller designed to be sitting on a desk, with
battery compartment easily accessible by burglars.

From the advices, I think I will want to install window/door sensors in

addition to motion detector. However, I still not sure if I will want
to get monitoring service, as I don't think it's that easy to hide my
phone line (not a handyman myself).
I like one feature of some security systems that I looked at online: a
remote that allow me to disarm the alarm from (outside the house?) and
warn me that the alarm has been triggered. So I can look around the
house before deciding what action to take.

 

[Jim]

Most burglars who break into your average home are idiots. Watch America's
Dumbest Criminals to get an idea. They don't know how to cut phone lines or
disconnect batteries. If they did, they would probably have a job and not
need to be breaking into your house!

The "pros" will break into somewhere where it is worth their effort, not a
home unless they know there is a lot of cash, jewelry, etc. there.

I think the best thing is to just place burglar alarm stickers around your
house. They will go next door where there are no stickers. Get them here...
http://www.homesecuritystore.com/security_decals_stickers.html

The next level of security would be a local alarm (not monitored) with a
siren. If they do break in, they will make their visit short.

Monitoring is good for medical alert, personal attack, or robbery. If the
police take 30 minutes to get there, burglars will be long gone. If there is
a private guard service in your area to respond, this would be better. Don't
sign any monitoring contracts until you read *every* word. Beware! They will
try to lock you in for many years. Canceling can be difficult. Read the fine
print. Here is inexpensive monitoring...
http://www.alarmrelay.com

Then the best security is physical. Bars on windows, doors, etc.

The only problem with your post is that it sounds just plausable enough
to appear knowledgable to someone who doens't know any better.

You're a dangerous person to be posting advice to novices. You need to
be in this business for a few years and expericence the results of your
kind of thinking.

 

[Copernicus]

You're a dangerous person to be posting advice to novices. You need to
be in this business for a few years and expericence the results of your
kind of thinking.

Such as that most troubling event, the drop in RMR.