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rallan

Jan 1, 1970
0
How do I find out where to start? I do not need flames! I would like to know
how to start out. I live in upstate NY, and am tired of all the bills for
power and natural gas. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy
 
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Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
rallan said:
How do I find out where to start? I do not need flames! I would like to know
how to start out. I live in upstate NY, and am tired of all the bills for
power and natural gas. Any help would be appreciated.

The first step is always to improve insulation. The pay-back beats *anything*
else.

Graham
 
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Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Harry said:
I like this thread. Good third step is to switch to all compact
florescent lighting and get a new refrigerator if the current one is
more than about five years old.

Cummon, guys. Skip the "my dick is bigger than yours" stuff and add
some helpful stuff here. Upstate New York can be cloudy and cold.

On the energy saving front, remembering to switch off loads that aren't needed
pays dividends too. Notably things like the TV and PC that use more power than
you might imagine.

Graham
 
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Harry Chickpea

Jan 1, 1970
0
BobG said:
==================================
Good second step is get a Kill-a-watt and measure the KWhrs of
everything. No sense in financing an expensive system to run wall warts
24/7

I like this thread. Good third step is to switch to all compact
florescent lighting and get a new refrigerator if the current one is
more than about five years old.

Cummon, guys. Skip the "my dick is bigger than yours" stuff and add
some helpful stuff here. Upstate New York can be cloudy and cold.
 
and as a 2nd step .....hire this Graham Asshole and tied his ass in ya
basement and let him fart all day long....... his fat ugly looking ass
will generate enough Methane to keep ya home warm and electricity bill
low......lol
 
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daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
wmbjk said:

I too live in upstate NY (near Lake Ontario).

And I had considered moving because of the extreme cold/snow. But you know,
considering...
1) Seldom need A/C,
2) No hurricanes
3) No tornadoes
4) No flooding
5) No wildfires
6) No droughts
7) Relatively low crime
8) Last few winters have been mild (global warming??)

And insulation is still cheap, it's not all that bad except for politicians,
but they grow everywhere :)

Insulation, CFL's, grey-water heat-exchanger, grove of trees to act as wind
break and shade in the summer, plenty of ways to cope.

daestrom
 
Randy:
Look for average wind speed in your area ....if you are close to great lake
area then you are in business. You can generate your own power and cut those
bills pretty much.

Wind Gene is cheap as compare to solar pannels. You can start with scratch
and gradually built the system as per your budget by adding the deep cycle
batteries. Hit us if you need more info.
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
I too live in upstate NY (near Lake Ontario).

And I had considered moving because of the extreme cold/snow. But you know,
considering...
1) Seldom need A/C,
2) No hurricanes
3) No tornadoes
4) No flooding
5) No wildfires
6) No droughts
7) Relatively low crime
8) Last few winters have been mild (global warming??)

And insulation is still cheap, it's not all that bad except for politicians,
but they grow everywhere :)

Insulation, CFL's, grey-water heat-exchanger, grove of trees to act as wind
break and shade in the summer, plenty of ways to cope.

daestrom

I figure that for most, the reasons for staying put are job, family,
etc.

As for the rest - we don't have 2 thru 5 either. Droughts, kinda'. But
with an average of about 16" of rain per year it can be hard to tell.
:) The dryness seems a difficult concept for many, but it shouldn't
be. It's lawns, humidity, and rusted cars that seem whacked to us. As
for #7, our crime isn't just relatively low, it's pretty much
non-existent in remote areas. The exact opposite of what many city
folks expect for some strange reason. #8 - recent winters have been
mild here as well, as in, perhaps two dozen nights barely below
freezing. We do need at least some AC, although its energy consumption
can mesh nicely with solar surplus. Or one can design around the need
by using cooling winds escaping past barriers. ;-)

I think a lot of people just never seriously consider moving. But when
it comes to energy self-sufficiency, there's a significant advantage
to starting in a suitable climate with a clean sheet of paper.

Wayne
 
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JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
rallan said:
How do I find out where to start? I do not need flames! I would like to
know how to start out. I live in upstate NY, and am tired of all the bills
for power and natural gas. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy

Most of the advice you'll get here is good, but the main thing to remember
is that you can't buy enough alternate energy to save money. It doesn't
matter what you do, the costs of alternate electricity are still more costly
than buying it from the grid. Nearly every substitute for grid power ends
up being more costly than grid power itself.

The only way to escape high energy costs is to conserve it. Wood, propane
or passive construction can all help. Better insulation, more efficient
appliances and better conservation habits are the best solutions.

I said "nearly." I am hoping someone can prove me wrong.
 
J

JoeSP

Jan 1, 1970
0
daestrom said:
I too live in upstate NY (near Lake Ontario).

And I had considered moving because of the extreme cold/snow. But you
know, considering...
1) Seldom need A/C,
2) No hurricanes
3) No tornadoes
4) No flooding
5) No wildfires
6) No droughts
7) Relatively low crime
8) Last few winters have been mild (global warming??)

No rare events? Is that something great?
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
Most of the advice you'll get here is good, but the main thing to remember
is that you can't buy enough alternate energy to save money. It doesn't
matter what you do, the costs of alternate electricity are still more costly
than buying it from the grid. Nearly every substitute for grid power ends
up being more costly than grid power itself.

The only way to escape high energy costs is to conserve it. Wood, propane
or passive construction can all help. Better insulation, more efficient
appliances and better conservation habits are the best solutions.

I said "nearly." I am hoping someone can prove me wrong.

Do you guys have energy efficiency ratings for things like fridges and freezers
btw ? They use a lot of energy over a year.

Graham
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
JoeSP said:
No rare events? Is that something great?

Oh, we occasionally will have a nice thunderstorm, maybe even some tiny
hail. Ever heard thunder and seen lightning in a snowstorm?? Kind of
freaky the first time.

And 'white-outs' in the winter when it snows so hard you can't see the road.
But you just stay indoors and wait for the plows to make it through. But as
I said, the last couple of winters have been mild and not that bad. A band
of 'Lake effect' snow can dump a foot of snow in less than six hours, and if
you're unlucky it will first move from north to south across your area in
the morning, then retreat from the south back to north across your area
again in the afternoon. The 'Tug Hill plateau' on the eastern end of Lake
Ontario has an 'unofficial' snowfall record of six feet (yes, 72 inches) in
a 24 hour period.

Here was one bad storm we had...
http://www.dot.state.ny.us/news/2004/r3/syr-snow.html

But these 'rare events' don't cause $M of damage nor displace thousands from
their homes. Just have to keep gas for the snowblower ready and an extra
stock of food in the pantry.

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
rallan said:
How do I find out where to start? I do not need flames! I would like to
know how to start out. I live in upstate NY, and am tired of all the bills
for power and natural gas. Any help would be appreciated.

Hello from the Lake-Effect snow band in Oswego Co!!!

Insulate and weatherstripping.

Boring as heck, I know. But that is the first place to start. Depending on
your home, it may be hard to 'backfit' some things, but with the rising
prices of natural gas, the pay-back on conservation projects just keeps
getting better and better.

My bills for a family of four on National Grid's 'budget plan' are running
$250/month. That's with gas heat/HW and even a little A/C in the summer.
How bad are your bills?

Nag the kids to turn off the PC/lights/TV. Get CFL's at least in the areas
that are more 'utilitarian' like the kitchen, bath, hallways. Did I mention
more insulation ?? :)

Maybe consider a new 'fridge if yours is more than 5 or 8 years old (well,
at least *consider* it...). Pay attention to the energy stickers when
appliance shopping. If you've chalked and stuffed all the obvious drafts,
consider getting a blower-door test done to find more infiltration areas
(along the sill plate on top of the foundation is one that gets missed
often, and the holes in the attic where wiring is routed is another).

Make an inexpensive 'plug' to seal off the basement's outside door if you
have one. I made one by cutting some rigid foam board to just slightly
smaller than the opening and then put a line of fiberglass batts around it
to let me plug it in tight and I can still remove it when I need to use the
door for access.

Either tight-fitting storm windows, or at least double-glazed ones. Locking
the windws (if you have double-hung style) in the winter can help hold them
tightly closed against winter winds. Check outlets/switchs that are on
exterior walls for drafts. Oh, and consider some more insulation :)

Good luck,

daestrom
 
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Jesse Spencer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello from the Lake-Effect snow band in Oswego Co!!!

Insulate and weatherstripping.

Boring as heck, I know. But that is the first place to start.

I bought a 120 yr old house in Oneonta a few years ago.
Amazed that they used oil heat for many years and never put insulation
in the walls and nothing but 3 1/2 fiberglass in attic that was beaten
down by debris and dust.
I put in blow in cellulose and R50 in attic...world of difference!
 
M

Mary Fisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
wmbjk said:
I think a lot of people just never seriously consider moving. But when
it comes to energy self-sufficiency, there's a significant advantage
to starting in a suitable climate with a clean sheet of paper.

To move you have to sell your present property - to buyers who, presumably,
can't be self sufficient in it.

I think it's better to improve where you are. If/when you move you'll have
improved the environment a little - to everyone's benefit.

Mary
 
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wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
To move you have to sell your present property - to buyers who, presumably,
can't be self sufficient in it.

I think it's better to improve where you are. If/when you move you'll have
improved the environment a little - to everyone's benefit.

Our own best interests came first. However, if you really want to do
what's best for everyone, then build as many energy efficient places
as you can. Others will eventually own each one instead of something
less efficient. Our last home had many energy efficient features
including a ground source heat pump and solar water heating. The
documented low energy and water consumption was a plus when selling,
and the proceeds of the sale paid for our much better current place,
with sufficient cash left over to pretty much retire. It's off-grid,
solar and wind powered, all electric, and needs only very modest fuel
for occasional use of a backup generator. Much more space and a better
lifestyle to boot. But a lot of things have to line up just right to
make something like that happen, so it's only a small minority who can
consider it. Still, I know quite a few who *could* do it, and some
have even expressed interest. But they're comfortable and don't make
the move.

Wayne
 
W

William Mcfadden

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you guys have energy efficiency ratings for things like fridges and
freezers btw ? They use a lot of energy over a year.

Graham

If "you guys" = USA, then yes. Many types of appliances sold in the US are
required to have yellow stickers that show the average energy use and cost
per year. This makes it easy for consumers to compare models in the
dealer's showroom. You can see an example here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/homes/applnces.htm

In addition, many efficency ratings are listed at energystar.gov. These
lists are restricted to items that exceed minimum US standards by some
percentage and can be advertised with the official Energy Star logo.

Also, many US states have their own lists, as well as tax rebates. Here's
the state of Oregon's site:
http://oregon.gov/ENERGY/CONS/RES/RETC.shtml

Finally, utility companies are offering rebates on furnaces, air
conditioners, etc. that exceed a certain efficiency. Between those rebates
and the state tax incentives, I saved a considerable amount on my 93%
efficient furnace. I believe there was a manufacturer's rebate as well.
 
W

William Mcfadden

Jan 1, 1970
0
I bought a 120 yr old house in Oneonta a few years ago.
Amazed that they used oil heat for many years and never put insulation
in the walls and nothing but 3 1/2 fiberglass in attic that was beaten
down by debris and dust.
I put in blow in cellulose and R50 in attic...world of difference!

Ditto, but my house is only 110 years old. The previous owners were
concerned that blowing insulation into the walls might make the plaster
crack, so they only insulated the attic and part of the basement. Also, the
windows were original and very leaky (you could feel the wind blowing
inside the house).

I sealed leaks; put plastic over the crawl space; insulated the basement
ceiling, attic floor, walls; added storm windows all around; and replaced
the 60-year-old oil furnace with a 93% efficient gas furnace. I did some of
this work myself, but most was done by contractors. The only thing I didn't
do was a blower door test, but I plan to do one soon.

Huge improvement in comfort and cost. The previous winter, we had paid $400
a month @ 7.5 cents/KWH to electrically heat two or three rooms. Now we can
heat the whole house (10 rooms, about 2000 sq ft) for $100-150 a month, even
though gas prices have doubled since that first winter.
 
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