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Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Jon Wilder, Aug 30, 2014.

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  1. Jon Wilder

    Jon Wilder

    Aug 30, 2014
    Hi all. New to the forum. I've been an electronics enthusiast since 1992 when I was just 12 years old. Built my first vacuum tube guitar amp at age 17 and got into embedded electronics with the PIC16F84A in 2010 (upgraded to the F628A a couple of weeks later).

    No I did not start with Arduino. Matter of fact I despise the Arduino and everything it stands for. Not a fan of things that fully abstract the hardware.

    Today I code MIDI devices for PIC16F, PIC18F and the dinosaur Intel 8051. I also code in both Keil C, Microchip XC8, as well as Intel and Microchip PIC Assembly (MPASM).

    I hope to be able to add to the forum with my MIDI coding and design experience. Looking forward to chatting with all of you.
    chopnhack likes this.
  2. Gryd3


    Jun 25, 2014
    Welcome to the Forum Jon,
    I partially agree with you on Arduino, but merely for the fact that they are being used in many applications that should utilize proper hardware. ie. not Arduino compatable lego bricks that are stacked and taped together ;) I feel it is a great too for introducing electronics and programming to new users though.
  3. davenn

    davenn Moderator

    Sep 5, 2009
    hi ya Jon
    welcome to Electronics Point :)

  4. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

    Nov 28, 2011
    Hi Jon! Welcome to Electronics Point :)

    Hope to see more from you in the future.
  5. chopnhack


    Apr 28, 2014
    Welcome Jon, quite the host of talents you bring to the forum!
  6. ketanrd01


    Aug 11, 2014
    Welcome Jon!!!....looking forward to your help....:)
  7. Jon Wilder

    Jon Wilder

    Aug 30, 2014
    Thanks for the warm welcome! issue with the Arduino is that the programming language (oh wait...I mean the "sketching" language), while it closely resembles C language, I don't consider it a real language. The Arduino introduces microcontroller programming in a way that hides the user from the fact that they're writing a program for a computerized device. Things like referring to the program as a "sketch"...learning the Arduino way makes it difficult for the beginner to cross migrate to the real microcontroller world. It is pretty much its own standard that doesn't match with the standard we go by in the embedded hardware world. Top it off with the fact that Arduino fanboys build their projects Lego style by adding Arduinos for more processing power...and the best one I've seen from them is when they compare Arduino to PIC as if to state that the Arduino itself is a microcontroller...I could go on.
    Supercap2F likes this.
  8. Gryd3


    Jun 25, 2014
    Jon, have you programmed an Arduino?
    Not to disagree, but perhaps to help clear your outlook on it.
    I agree to a certain extent that the programming language is a mask and hides much of the actual microprocessor, but that said, there are many low-level functions that work exactly the same way you would program a PIC.
    This is the first example I thought of You may have a different view on it, but these types of functions will assist a user in migrating to a different microprocessor.

    The fanboyism does not do much for me in terms of the product itself, but I still cringe seeing a $30 Arduino doing what a $0.80 PIC can do...
  9. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

    Dec 18, 2013
    Hi Jon, welcome to electronics point.
  10. Jon Wilder

    Jon Wilder

    Aug 30, 2014
    This right're 100% correct. Makes the design of the project way less efficient and more cost prohibitive.

    I myself have never coded one but if I were to, I would treat it as an AVR development board and use the Atmel AVR IDE and Atmel code (either Atmel assembly or their C compiler), not wiring and the Arduino IDE. Its not the hardware itself that I'm against. Lord knows I've designed and made my own PIC motherboards that I've designed stuff around. But everything is coded with standard Microchip languages and my main board designs can use single or multiple PIC's. If I need more processing power or memory, I can add PICs or a 24LCxxx in the memory size of my choosing. Much cheaper and more compact design to add chips than to add an entire board. Plus I understand the difference between a microcontroller and a main board.

    When I write C code, I do mask the hardware to an extent, but more so to speed up the coding process. For example, I have a function to write to a 24LCxxx EEPROM that allows me to pass the write address and the byte to be written. eeByteWrite(<ADDRESS>,<DATA>); If I want to write the ASCII character A to location 05CF, I just do eeByteWrite(0x05CF,'A'); But...I wrote all of the required I2C functions as well as the functions which use them to work with the 24LCxxx EEPROM. I wrote them to be abstract, efficient and use up as little code space as possible. I can do this because I have learned and understand the low level hardware functioning that the Arduino fanboys won't take the time to learn. Arduino fanboys just use the pre-canned functions available to them without regard to HOW they work, effectively hiding behind the mask that is the Arduino way. I don't understand how anyone can "learn" microcontrollers this way. Learning what a microcontroller can do is far different from learning the microcontroller itself.
  11. Gryd3


    Jun 25, 2014
    Agreed, but it ropes is many that otherwise would not even touch a microprocessor. Some do venture outside the safety net of pre-built functions and libraries and for that I consider it a partial win. I never learned machine language before making my first tic-tac toe game for windows in C++ ;)

    Again though, welcome to the forum and I look forward to some of that MIDI experience you have :D Last time I played with MIDI in any depth was making a MIDI ringtone for the Nokia 3220 that explicitly controlled the 4 LED bumper colors.
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