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New Member - which forum for a simple question about using TINA ?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by pratto, Jul 2, 2015.

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  1. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    This is my first post. I am using TINA for a VERY simple circuit, and can't get it to respond reasonably.
    In which of your forums should I post my question ?

    thanks
     
  2. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    This one, ask away!
    Adam
     
  3. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    Hello -
    Excellent. Thanks.

    I have been using TINA to model an automatic chicken coop door. What is shown as a light in the .jpg's is actually a DC motor that I can reverse to make the door go up or down.
    When I set up a circuit with the + to +motor (and - to -motor) it runs fine. When I set up another circuit and reverse the leads (+ to -motor, etc.) it still runs fine. The trouble starts when I combine them.
    I want an Arduino to decide when to use + to + and when + to -. This circuit is in the + to - direction. According to me, whether switch 1 is open or closed, the motor should be running backwards. It does run backwards, until I close SW1. Then I get an "Irregular Circuit" error message from TINA.
    Yet if I replace SW 1 with a wire, it works fine.
    Something changes and stops the analysis when I use a closed switch as opposed to a wire.

    How come ?

    p.s. my images are probably a little difficult to follow, but I hope you get the drift.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
  4. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    The door switch is irrrelevant as the left side of the lamp/motor is connected to ground by a wire regardless of the state of the switch.The simulator may have trouble simulating a switch that connects two identical nets.

    Note that ground is a single net from the point of view of the simulator, even when drawn as separate wires as in your diagram. Connecting a net to itself doesn't make sense to the simulator (nor does it in practice).

    For running a motor in two directions use an H-bridge. Here's a tutorial on using an arduino and an H-bridge driver IC to achieve this. You certainly can buy a shield for the arduino that comprises all the required electronics.-
     
  5. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    Harold -

    Thanks for your response and thoughts. It is the TINA simulator that I am concerned about, not my circuit configuration.

    When I simplified my circuit down to the essentials to make my point, I thought, you know plenty of people are going to take me for an idiot making a circuit like this, but I hope some will get the point that I am asking about the behavior of TINA, not my dumb wiring. What is shown as the center ground is actually an Arduino pin that changes from an Input pin to a ground pin. But I can't get TINA to work in even this simplest of configurations.

    If I breadboard what is shown in the jpeg, there is no problem. But TINA chokes. I was hoping someone familiar with it would say "oh, that is because of this and that. all you have to do to successfully model it is change such and such".

    And maybe you are right about the net thing. But where is part 2 ? What is the such & such that I should change ? Just kidding Harold. I do appreciate your taking the time to try and help me.

    p.s. the door switch is not completely irrelevant TO MY QUESTION because it is the act of closing it that generates the "Irregular Circuit" error message.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
  6. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Add a small resistance as shown. Don't know why it's doing this but a 0.1 Ohm won't effect circuit operation and solves the problem.
    Adam

    BULB.PNG
     
  7. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    Because now you have created two separate nets...
     
  8. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Hi Harald
    What I meant was I don't know why the original circuit didn't work. Switching the same net shouldn't have done that.
    Cheers
    Adam
     
  9. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    Adam -
    Yep. That solved the problem.
    Thanks and gracias amigo. That little fix has helped me immensely. I spent hours and hours trying different layouts, substituting in batteries, grounds, jumpers and all the flavors of switches that were available. I e-mailed Tibor at Designsoft but got no response. In frustration I had looked into several other simulation programs (but I have used TINA for more than 10 years and like it). I had lost confidence in TINA.
    I could kick myself for not thinking of your solution. Anyway, thanks again.
    Pat
     
  10. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    No probs Pat. Your welcome.
    Adam
     
  11. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

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    When I was at school, I tried to use Tina too. She didn't respond reasonably either.

    Martin
     
  12. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Bet that was a long time a go :)
     
    Martaine2005 likes this.
  13. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

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    Not quite sure when!!
    I just remember the bike shed.:rolleyes:
     
    Arouse1973 likes this.
  14. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    Adam -

    Do you happen to know how to change the default folder selected when using "save as". If I don't watch the thing carefully, it reverts back to a folder it likes, then I have to go searching for my files.
    You would think it would be easy to do, but I have searched and no luck.

    Pat
     
  15. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Not sure I'll have a look.
     
  16. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    I found some .INI files which allow you to change the setting for the PCB software but I couldn't find anything for the schematic editor. I'll have another go.
    Adam
     
  17. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    Not in reality, but in simulation. Probably an issue withe the matrix setup within the simulator.
     
    Arouse1973 likes this.
  18. pratto

    pratto

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    Jul 2, 2015
    Adam -

    Just so you know I wasn't asking an idle question, attached is the finished circuit (if there is such a thing).
    In one of my many design iterations I figured out a way around the net splitting issue. But I'll remember that trick for when it rears it's ugly head again.

    As far as the 'save as' location goes, only bother if you have time. But I would like to sort that out once and for all.

    Pat
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Hi Pat
    It's nice to see a complete circuit diagram. I hope it goes well. I might email Design Soft and ask them.
    Adam
     
  20. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

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    Hi Pat
    Looks like you have to set them up when you install Tina :(
    Adam
    TINA PROB.PNG
     
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