New Home Build Help Needed

I'm about to build a new home here in the US, and my builder is going to let
me run any low voltage wiring I want. I am planning on building a system
byself. From what I gather, a wired system is the way to go since there
will be no drywall up.

I'm planning on doing 4 doors, 3 motion detectors, and illuminated keypads
upstaris and down. I also would like the option of it paging/calling me
when it is tripped (not necessary, but nice). I could care less about
monitoring, as I will have a cop that lives across the street.

What brands do you recommend?
I know that the door sensors only require 2 wires... how many do the IR
units require, is it 3?
What should I expect to pay for the comlpete setup?

 

My God! If you deal with someone from this newsgroup you better keep one eye
open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info
for your home security.
Be very very careful using this group.
Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you
buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA
certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that
later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is
understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later
byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do
not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised
a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website.
It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that
it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly
post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was
analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The
ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need
to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on
the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by
researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be
surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what
you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal
system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for
something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.

<stolen from Jakes452>

 

My God! If you deal with someone from this newsgroup you better keep one eye
open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info
for your home security. You give info to someone from this group and next
thing you know you come home and your house is cleaned out ...or
worse........and inexplicibly, your alarm did not work.
Be very very careful using this group.
Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you
buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA
certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that
later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is
understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later
byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do
not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised
a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website.
It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that
it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly
post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was
analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The
ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need
to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on
the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by
researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be
surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what
you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal
system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for
something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.

 

Looks like Jake has a new identity. You should always take advise from
someone who has failed to be an intelligent consumer. You can learn allot
from a dummy.

There are some people here who can help you, some that will mock you, but
you will be able to (unlike Jake aka Marc) tell the difference and form an
educated decision.

Jack

 

haha i am not jack btw
i KNEW jakes452 would do it , so i did it for him .. lol maybe i need to get
out today

 

I have seen that this is your standard reply... thanks for "Using the
Internet 101".

Now how about some real answers to my questions, since you are the expert?

 

Ok ... MOST people use 4 wires for a Motion .. 2 for power, 2 for the loop,
some have mentioned they use 6 to do some loop back to the panel with
resistance... as for what system, every installer has their preferance, some
like DSC, some Ademco, DMP, etc... panels usualy come in 6zones or 8 zones,
so if you want 4 doors + 3 motions = 7 zones, i would get something like the
DSC 5010 if your going to go with dsc.

if your doing this yourself, your complete setup will depend on who/where
you get your parts from. Keypads are usualy one of the biggest costs. If you
buy LCD (alpha) keypads, they are usualy around $100 where as LED keypasd
are about half of that.. i find for DIY a DSC 5010 , a couple of LED 8 zone
keypads does fine.. as for motions, you have differnt
brands/prices/technolgoies that run differnt prices..

email me if you need any help

-Marc

 

I would agree. But more physical in nature. Jokes on me.

Jack

 

Another graduate of the "RFI Paul" school of monitoring... )

 

.....lemme guess.... you happen to also sell those services. Sorry that I'm
not kicking my money into your livelihood. I could care less about my
house if we're not in it... I know where my priorities are. Where are
yours? Where I live, all new houses have to have to have fire/smoke/CO
detectors. All I need it for is to let me know if anyone tries to break in
while we are home... I'll take care of the rest.

You're right.. I am ashamed... that I'm even replying to your post.

 

Agreed... Get those wires in while you still can (easily, that is).

I recommend covering all doors and windows, especially on the bottom floor,
with contacts. 22 gauge/2 conductor at least, though I never buy less than
22/4 (spare conductors are a plus).

Have you thought about a certain brand? Do you want it zoned (ZN1 Front
Door, ZN2 North Windows, etc) or point-annunciated (PT 11 North Left Window,
PT 12 North Right Window, etc)?

Monitoring is your option. What if the cop moves away and the fam is home,
but you are not? Just things to consider...

Ademco and DMP

4 - 2 for power (+ and -) and 2 for the detection loop

For just the parts or to have them installed too?

 

Somehow II have a feeling you'd care big time if someone broke into your
house when you weren't home

Yes they make lots of noise don't they? And that's all they'll do

 

Perhaps we should start this thread again, but aim it directly at the
questions you've asked.

If you are designing the system yourself, make sure you run the normal
"telephone" type wire - 4 conductor quad - to each exterior door, and to
every other place where you wish a detector of any sort..ie outside corner
mounted motions, glassbreaks facing large windowed areas, one to a siren
location on the main floor perhaps, plus to ceiling mounted smoke detector
locations on each floor. Also, run a wire for a second floor keypad in the
hallway, plus several spare loops to the attic (you'll find you will use
them over time). Run two quad conductors to each keypad location (many
systems provide for a zone on the first two keypads in addition to the ones
on the main board....). And a loop to each basement window if the basement
is going to be finished on day one...

Magnetic contacts require a two wire loop and powered devices require two
loops....ie yellow and green for the contact loop and red and black for 12
volt power for example is a common colour combination.

As to alarm panel make, that is a personal choice. In the USA, Napco, Ademco
and DSC are common makes. In Canada, DSC and Paradox are often used (being
Canadian brands). Whatever brand you buy, make sure in advance that it is
"user friendly" and easy to understand. Often it is wise to opt for the
higher end LCD keypads which can provide more information, and these are
relatively inexpensive if you are buying it yourself as a DIY'er, as opposed
to getting it from a professional alarm company where it is often premium
priced. A lot of the newer panels will call a pager but not a cellphone.
What you end up paying can vary a lot depending upon where you buy the
equipment. I can't give you a realistic bottom line here because so much
depends upon the quality of the components you buy....for example, there are
cheap motions and there are good ones. Costs can vary widely !

Do give some serious thought to having it professionally monitored, but
search around for a company that won't lock you in to a long term contract
and where there is a reasonable price ($20 or less). Contracts do absolutely
NOTHING for you as a consumer; they simply guarantee the company a
guaranteed revenue stream for a future predetermined time. In doing so
however, they also take away your freedom of choice to shop around if the
company doesn't provide you good service ! As others have correctly said in
the thread (albeit somewhat impolitely), a non monitored system is really
not that useful, and depending upon your neighbours totally is what we here
in Canada call "penny wise and pound foolish". And assuming because your
neighbour is a cop will help prevent you from being robbed is simply and
totally incorrect ! They get robbed just as often as anyone else !

But of course as a consumer, the choice is totally yours. But most
important, don't forget the physical security precautions....good locks,
long steel strikes in the frame, doubling up of the studding on both sides
of the exterior doors....all easy to do when the house structure is wide
open. It also might be a good time to relocate the telephone company
demarcation block inside the garage or basement.

Get back to us if you have further questions....best of luck !

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

I know how you feel Tom ! I often get requests from customers to put in
half the system forgetting the most important part. But bottom line, it's
his security and his decision. You and I (and anyone else who has been in
the professional security business for more than five minutes) knows the
risk people take by using an alarm system as a simple noisemaker ! But
everyone puts value on different things in life. I'm sure he honestly
believes that a simple noisemaker is sufficient. And while you and I know
that is a mistake, that is HIS mistake to make. We can only give him our
advice ! Insults do nothing to convince him of the error of his
conclusions.....

However, I partly blame our industry for some of that reluctance to have an
alarm system monitored properly. If we didn't artificially make it so
expensive and so restrictive for people to buy monitoring, more of these
skeptics would opt to do things properly. High monitoring prices have
legitimately come about because of the mass marketing of alarms where a
dealer MUST get over $30 a month to get a reasonable payback on his
hardware. This market perception keeps prices high even in instances where
there is simply no need...ie: customer fully owns system up front, takeovers
etc.

But...hey !...what the hell do I know...( ...You can lead a horse to water
but you can't make it drink....

That's life...

RHC

 

HAHAHAHAHA... it is soooo easy to push your buttons!!!

If you really want to protect your family, you would go for tactical
training like I did.

Tell me something, what will your local law enforcement do when your alarm
goes off.... kick in the door and go storming around looking for bad guys?
Guess again... you could be bleeding to death with your assailant standing
right next to you. If they see no obvious signs of a break-in and no one
answers the door, they won't do anything... and they'll even send a bill to
you for a "false alarm"... hopefully they won't be sending it to a funeral.

It's a shock that I was right that you're a dealer. You are such a great
businessman... you must have studied under Dale Carnegie. Repeat after
me... "I will get Nunya Business with an attitude like this."

The cop neighbor thing was a joke, as another cop friend of mine was
standing over my shoulder when I wrote it. He laughed and called me an ass.
He did get broken into a couple years ago in another neighborhood... funny
thing was that he was home when it happened, and that was the sorriest piece
of human waste that night!

I would like to extend a sincere thanks to all of the people who
constructively criticized me. The part I didn't consider was fire alerting.
Sometimes I get caught in the present rather than into the future. My kids
are at the age where they are never home, but when they get older and can
stay home alone for an evening, I would rather that 911 would be called for
a fire... kids can tend to panic in those situations. Since I'm new to
this, shouldn't there be a way for your system to directly notify 911 that a
fire alarm has been tripped? I guess it might come down to local
regulations.

 

You are 100% correct. We got raked for $30 a month for 4 years on an old
Moose system that came with our previous home. Are there any
monitoring-only companies that don't have to make up for the cost of their
systems?

 

Sir, there are numerous companies around that can provide monitoring only,
or with bundled service and warranty for a bit more, but you WILL have to
shop around aggressively! I suggest you look within the ranks of the
smaller dealers, some of whom aren't into the "institutionalized gouging"
that all the large nationals engage in. If you want to assume the service
responsibilities for your alarm, there are companies that deal directly with
the end user for about $9 a month. Our industry unfortunately, has become
one in which the emphasis on long term monitoring contracts has taken
precedence over the sale and design of the system itself. While I don't wish
to tar everyone with that same brush, it IS true enough in the vast majority
of situations as to make it almost universally so. And the biggest company
in our business is particularily guilty of this on the residential side of
their business...

After about 10 years in the alarm business and 30 years in the security
business, here is my personal observation of pricing in the market:

Monitoring is provided to alarm dealers from $3 to $6 monthly, who resell it
to the end user at whatever markup they deem fair and reasonable to make a
profit
Monitoring only directly to the end user with no service and warranty goes
for about $9 to $11 monthly sometimes with no long term contract. Service is
subcontracted out but is very expensive....this can make this sketchy
arrangement a bit of a crap shoot !!
Monitoring and a measure of service and warranty for from $12 to $20 a
month, sometimes with no long term commitment but more often with at least a
year contract
Monitoring from $20 to $28 monthly, 2 to 5 year contract, but with an
artificially low price for the installation of the system itself (or not
!!!) Service and warranty often built in to a large measure ...the domain of
a lot of dealers and the large nationals
Monitoring from $28 to $35, "free" upfront system price, 3 to 5 year
contract......high prices that continue on ad infinitum unless you twist
their arm afterwards......the domain of the mass marketers and the large
nationals.

Bottom line, IMO, you shouldn't be paying more than $20 monthly unless you
are paying down the equipment costs. If you own your system outright, shop
below this rate point. And if you can avoid it, DON'T sign a long term
commitment contract - there's absolutely nothing at all in it for you - you
lose your leverage against price hikes and service disappointments !!
However, if you do decide to take on responsibility for your own system, be
realistic about it. These damn alarm systems can sometimes be pretty tricky
things although most of the time they will give no problems at all provided
they are installed correctly and set up properly for pets if applicable.
However, it really does help to have a dealer at your side unless you are
skilled in these particular devices...

But again, as in every other market niche, the choice is totally yours
choice as the buying consumer.....)

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

My God! If you deal with someone from this newsgroup you better keep one eye
open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info
for your home security. Get "help" from here and next think your house is
cleaned out and inexplicably your alarm didnt work......or worse.....
Be very very careful using this group.
Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you
buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA
certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that
later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is
understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later
byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do
not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised
a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website.
It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that
it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly
post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was
analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The
ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need
to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on
the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by
researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be
surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what
you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal
system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for
something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.

 

Some municipalities have direct connections to the 911 dispatch office.
Getting harder and harder to find though. Still have a few out in the
boonies here in Texas.

More than likely, you'll have to be monitored by a central station and
they'll call the dispatcher when they get the signal. If you are going to
get fire monitoring, you might as well get burg too. They don't charge per
zone. Or do they? My god I'll leave the industry if they start!

 

That $30 sure won't seem like much if someone robs the place

How much do you spend on cable TV? Bet you don't think much about the added
charges for HBO and Showtime, Got cable internet or DSL? Hmmm wonder how
much that adds...

But when it comes to something important......naaa $30 is too much