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new dual NPN and PNP transistors

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Ban, Oct 2, 2004.

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  1. Ban

    Ban Guest

  2. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Ban,

    Nice parts indeed. How low is the cost at 1k or higher quantities?

    Regards, Joerg
     
  3. Ban

    Ban Guest

    I have only free samples but Arrow lists the BC 547BS for 0.046 each.
    This seems too good to be true, together with the current mirrors BCV60/61
    they can make nice discrete differential amplifiers.
     
  4. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hi Ban,
    That seems to be the normal transistor which you can get under 2 cents.
    When I keyed in BCM847 Arrow didn't have it.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  5. Presumably the "M" is for matched. I can't find it listed anywhere- no
    links from Philips' site either. 8-(


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  6. Tim Shoppa

    Tim Shoppa Guest

    I know these are new products, but the Philips website (other than the
    links you provided) seems to know nothing else about these parts.

    Win complained about the BCM846/BCM856 not being available off anybody's
    shelf, I'd guess the situation will be worse for these new ones.

    Looks like I'll be sticking with CA3046's for a while longer :).

    Ban, you wrote about BCV60's a while back too, I couldn't even figure
    out who made those, much less sold them!

    Tim.
     
  7. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hi Spehro,
    There are actually two devices in there, not like in the olden days
    where we bought them one matched pair per bag. Pretty nifty but they
    have to make it readily available.

    The Philips site actually drives me crazy. A classic example of how not
    to design a web presence. That goes for a lot of European manufacturers.
    Great products but often poor marketing.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  8. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    The Panasonic site is cool. It often can't do a successful search for
    one of their own part numbers.

    John
     
  9. I had no trouble finding the product page (OK, I admit getting there
    through the back door), but no links to purchasable product at any
    Philips distributors. They ought to be in the table below the SOT363
    graphic, under the "buy online" heading.

    http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/BCM847BS.html

    If the only matching characteristics are |Vbe1-Vbe2| < 2mV and hFE
    within 10% then probably most of the jellybean Japanese duals would
    pass, I'm guessing.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  10. Getting useful information through most any of the Japanese web sites
    is a harrowing experience. It would be interesting to see if
    Japanese-speaking engineers have the same problems, or if the problems
    are just with Gaijin users.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  11. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    Based on exactly one sample, I'd say they have less luck.
     
  12. Er... Why?

    So, they are matched devices. So what. The rest of the data sheet shows
    average, common or garden specs. For example, ft at 250Mhz is
    unimpressive, as is the 10p Cbe equally unimpressive. In addition, no
    noise data is shown.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  13. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hi John,
    Same with Philips, Infineon etc. I have been unable to find parts that I
    personally have designed into products which are still in full
    production. So my design-in rate of their products declined rapidly. I
    prefer companies who know how marketing to engineers is done and, as an
    absolute requirement, list budgetary prices. No budgetary pricing, no
    design-in.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  14. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hi Spehro,
    Yes, you can get there. But through their home page that is a bear to
    do. It even freeze the browser sometimes. When that happens at a client
    it is embarrassing. "What did you do to my PC...?".
    Plus they ought to list prices. Absolute requirement these days.
    Yes, and there also needs to be a 2nd source for parts like this.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  15. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hi Kevin,
    I guess they are not meant for microwave stuff ;-)

    If the price is right, meaning under 10 cents or so, you can do nice
    circuits with matched pairs that are in the same package. But you have a
    point here. A 10% hfe match is ok but not really something to write home
    about.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  16. Tim Shoppa wrote...
    BCV61 and BCV62 are npn and pnp mirrors in sot-143 packages,
    with 30% current (10mV Vbe) matching. They're made by Philips
    and Infineon; Farnell and Newark have them for mere pennies.
     
  17. Yep the classic, LM394 pair, is 50uv matching and 2% hfe match (0.5%
    typ), with very low 1/f noise. It costs a bit though.


    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  18. I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
    ..blueyonder.co.uk>) about 'new dual NPN and PNP transistors', on Sun, 3
    Oct 2004:
    Gigantic Ccb = 10 pF. A sort of silicon dual PX4/2A3. (;-)
     
  19. Joerg wrote...
    http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/BCM847BS.html
    Is this interesting? Most low-cost dual parts these days aren't
    monolithic, and have no matching spec at all. Some of the "mirror"
    parts have 40% mirror specs, not very good, but better than nothing
    (this corresponds to a 10mV Vbe offset for matched transistors, see
    AoE fig 2.53). But I'm puzzled by the beta matching offered by some
    manufacturers - what's the appeal? If a 10% hfe spec corresponded
    to a 10% mirror or offset match, that would be useful, but there's
    no indication that there's any correspondence.
     
  20. I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
    I thought so, too. we are always warned not to accept designs that
    depend on even a 2: 1 beta range.

    My guess is that if your device has a 10% beta match, flaunt it, even
    though it's irrelevant. Next week, dual devices in which the package is
    ****exactly the same colour for both devices****!!!!.
     
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