New Digital Tek Scopes

[Audio]

Like the TDS 1002 are going for about $1000.

For audio applications, why should I shell out $500-$600 for a calibrated 465 or 475 scope that 25+ years old when I can get new for a bit more?

Are the TDS scopes Chinese crap? or am I blowing my
$$$ on the old stuff?

 

[BFoelsch]

I've been fooling around with the Tek TDS 2012. It is an odd change, for the
die-hard user of analog scopes. There is a moderate learning curve and a
moderate expectation curve.

The first thing that strikes you is that the screen resolution is only 320 x
240, so that "jaggies" are evident much of the time. However, you learn to
work around that by choosing appropriate scales and values. The other major
surprise is the issue of record length, which isn't an issue at all in an
analog scope. The record length in the TDS 1000/2000 scopes is only 2.5k. If
you are just looking at waveforms there is no problem, but looking at
something like a modulation envelope is a different story.

On the plus side, the inherent storage feature and the ability to capture
even fast single shot events and see them at full brightness is a real
treat. The built-in FFT function doesn't hurt either. The ability to see
pre-trigger events and the ability to make accurate measurements is also
great. I do like the "analog" interface, knobs for the common settings
instead of menus.

Something I wasn't expecting is the limited dynamic range of the CH1 + CH2
functions. The math is done on the screen image data, rather than the actual
sample data. If one or both of your samples create an off-screen display,
the add and subtract features use the screen data rather than the signal
data and some odd things result. For example, you could not use the Ch1 -
Ch2 feature to view differential data in the presence of a large common mode
signal. While all scopes have substantial limitations in this regard, most
have a dynamic range considerably in excess of the screen size, but these do
not!

One thing I DO miss is the ability to do composite triggering. You can
trigger on an input, PERIOD. You can not trigger off the screen image, so
you find yourself flipping the trigger selection back and forth all the
time. There is also no fine adjust for the horizontal sweep speed.

To conclude, for audio work and general "fooling around," I think these are
pretty good. I still have some analog scopes (Tek 547, 2225, 465) that I
fire up on occasion, but no matter how hard I try to convince myself that
they are better I always go back to the digital. I would sum up by saying
that the TDS 1000/2000 series does many things, but does none of them
exceptionally well. I use the 547 when I need the service of a differential
comparator plug-in, for example. But, for the casual or non cutting edge
user, they are ideal. No way would I invest another cent in a CRT scope,
especially a 465/475 that is already 30 years old and has less functionality
than the TDS stuff. The fact that the TDS is only as big as a telephone book
doesn't hurt, either!






Like the TDS 1002 are going for about $1000.

For audio applications, why should I shell out $500-$600 for a calibrated
465 or 475 scope that 25+ years old when I can get new for a bit more?

Are the TDS scopes Chinese crap? or am I blowing my
$$$ on the old stuff?

 

[Rich Webb]

Like the TDS 1002 are going for about $1000.

For audio applications, why should I shell out $500-$600 for a calibrated 465 or 475 scope that 25+ years old when I can get new for a bit more?

Are the TDS scopes Chinese crap? or am I blowing my
$$$ on the old stuff?

[word-wrap is a Good Thing, as is non-HTML posting]

In audio apps, where you're mostly looking at continuous signals, a
traditional analog scope may give you a truer picture of the signal. The
TDS scopes are wonderful (disclaimer: I have a TDS 220 for my home
workbench, similar to the TDS 1012) but they do "suffer" from being
digital (discrete) as well as a relatively low resolution display.

Discrete sampling can result in high freq signals being aliased and
appearing as artifacts in the pass band. The low res display means that
a pure sine wave looks a little stair-steppy up close.

On the other hand, you also get on-screen cursors and measurements,
including a 2K-point FFT for signal analysis.

Summary: No, the TDS scopes are not "Chinese crap" and no, you wouldn't
be blowing your $$$ on the "old stuff" either. YPYMAYTYC.

 

[Jim Yanik]

Like the TDS 1002 are going for about $1000.

For audio applications, why should I shell out $500-$600 for a
calibrated 465 or 475 scope that 25+ years old when I can get new for
a bit more?

Are the TDS scopes Chinese crap? or am I blowing my
$$$ on the old stuff?

AFAIK the TDS scopes are NOT "chinese crap",although the power supplies are
purchased parts and may have come from Taiwan,HK,Malaysia,or other places.
I believe the scope PCB is still made in the US of A,by TEK,but the LCD may
also come from Asia.

FYI,TEK instruments that are rebadged from other products will have a
serial number beginning with a letter other than 'B' for Beaverton,like TW
for Taiwan,H for Heenveren,Channel Islands.(apologies for spelling.)

 

[Ed Price]

Like the TDS 1002 are going for about $1000.

For audio applications, why should I shell out $500-$600 for a calibrated
465 or 475 scope that 25+ years old when I can get new for a bit more?

Are the TDS scopes Chinese crap? or am I blowing my
$$$ on the old stuff?



You don't hear too many jerks talk about Japanese crap these days, do you?

We are seeing low-end Chinese electronics (like throw-away DMM's) simply
because we are willing to buy them. China will soon be a serious world-class
electronics competitor.

You better get smarter fast.


Ed

 

[Audio]

So your telling me that if I wait a little longer I can buy a scope at
Wal-mart or maybe get one free in a "happy" meal.

Ok, I'm a "smarter"....now what?

 

[DJ Bartlett]

I have mixed feelings about this, though it is obviously true (that china
will soon be a serious world-class electronics competitor).

On the one hand, our country is one of the cleanest in the industrialized
world (if you check out a list of "most polluted cities" Beijing is high on
most lists, if not at the top of it, and it is rare that a US city even
makes mention), and our standard of living is similarly one of the best.

Unfortunately, this comes at a price: fewer entry/mid-level technical jobs
at home, greater risk of economic hardship resulting from a war or some
other political upheaval outside of our country, dollars leaving, and not
really coming directly back to us, and an increased focus on mass-produced,
cheaply-made, disposable, and intentionally obsolescent consumer electronics
that could never be reproduced profitably by anything shy of a multinational
corporation with major production facilities outside of our country.

WE are not so far off from becoming nothing but Marketing/Executive types,
hospitality/food service workers and warehouse stocking personnel. Soon
"made in America" will be synonymous with "insanely expensive, poorly
documented, and not really all that high in quality."

That kind of scares me.

DJ
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